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  • Plumber stabbin

    Why does it always seem that plumbers are tearing each other apart? I have even caught myself doing it at one time or another and I'm not happy about that.

    Every time I attend a class or seminar it's like a dog and pony show, with the who has the fattest wallet intermission. Followed by, without me everyone would still be poopin in a ditch speech.

    You rarely hear a doctor or lawyer talk poorly of their colleagues.

    Being confident and professional I get, beating some guy up because he has a question or could have run something different I don't.

    This forum could be so much better if people felt they could post pictures of their work or ask questions without getting a lead ingot beat down.

    Where are the apprentices? They read this stuff, I know they do. Ever ask why yourself why they don't post questions?
    Anyone can tear a man down, few can build one up.

  • #2
    Re: Plumber stabbin

    Like many things in our wonderful industry this is not unique to just you guys. Every time I attend a seminar we get the same. i am not saying that those on this forum are not educated, what I am saying is that many of the Plumbers here in Australia suffer extreme tunnel vision. They are consumed totally in their own importance chasing every last cent possible not caring about anyone or anything that gets in the way.
    Now we all hve to survive but what mst fail to recognise is that education is te key to our future and our survival. I dont know if ypou havegroup schemes over there for apprentices but over here they are just short of parasites. It is business, very big and profitable. The Govt has outsourced the management to Companies run by failed public servant types who have absolutely no idea about the trades they are looking after. Theapprentices are sent out to be legal slave labour with little chance of learning like we were fortunate enough to expeience. Then once they get through their time they are trained to continue like the moron plumbers who taught them.
    Our trade is still as important as any. We give guarantees and results far superior to Doctors, LAWYERS and others. Unfortunately mpost get caught up in the little d--k syndrome and think they are " Just PLUMBERS" on the lowest rung of society. Some however have woken up and realised that it is the opposite. Now all we need to do is get the Governments to realise similar and encourage training through apprenticeships. Stop trying to short-cut training and reduce the time frame for making future tradesmen(dare I use this term). We should also do as Tyman says, stop dumping on each other and continue assisting our fellow forum menbers and visitors. I am not promoting hacks but rather our own tradesmen.
    This Gentlemen is just my HUMBLE OPINION

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    • #3
      Re: Plumber stabbin

      Here is how I see it...I have posted a few questions on here and gotten good solid advice...which is great and appreciated. I also sometimes give...which may or may not be helpful. In the area where I live there are few plumbing companies and few individual plumbers. We all know each other and always try to help out without any hidden agenda. This is how I feel it should be. Now having said that I learned my trade in Florida... and I can tell you that a lot of people down there are cut throat types...they feel that if they give you knowledge then you are taking away from their paycheck....SHAME ON THEM. l also will say this I am very PROUD about what I do and who I am and feel that I provide a service just as needed as a doctor or a lawyer and they are no better or no worse than me! And I sure as hell don't let people who have money treat me like crap...this is how I see it for what its worth....
      Poor Planning On Your Part Does Not Constitute An Emergency On My Part!!
      You can fire me...but you can't tell me what to do!

      Derek

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      • #4
        Re: Plumber stabbin

        Sorry Ty,
        Some will never heal from the fact that they never got any in high school,ended up paying cash for it.
        If by some fluke chance a chick got drunk and gave the guy a chance she probably ended up laughing at his goofy azz

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Plumber stabbin

          Thank you Tyman for what I have been politely avoiding..... I almost always throw a morning look at this Rigid forum as it is very informative especially for homeowners such as myself. I distinctly remember a while back frustrated on not being able to remove a very old bathroom sink fixture and posted on Rigid for ideas. I also requested suggestions for a replacement hand-held electric snake hoping to retire my very old Milwaukee electric snake. Rick (a.k.a. Plumber Rick) was not only informative but presented his recommendations in a non-condescending reply which I will be forever grateful. Thanks to Rick I purchased a replacement Rigid electric snake this time with autofeed and it has been a win-win for all...another sale for Rigid, a re-devoted reader for all of the Rick postings but more importantly a happy homeowner who tries to cost effectively save a dollar here and there.

          I was somewhat bummed out over the fact a few replies alluded to the fact I had my nose "buried" in Rick's butt over the accolades I posted about Rick but this is to be expected on any of these type public forums. I continue to especially value postings from Ron (SewerRatz) and Rick and will take replies from others with caution as some of these people appear to be very "angry people" for whatever reason. In the interim, kudos to you and others for posting your opinions/thoughts as this has been long overdue.

          Can we finaly start playing "nice" in 2011?
          Last edited by swong; 01-22-2011, 05:52 PM.

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          • #6
            Re: Plumber stabbin

            There goes our next peacefull get together

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Plumber stabbin

              Plumbers are opinionated, passionate guys. It's what we are and what we will always be and when we stop we might as well head on down to the ole retirement home and hang up the pipe wrenches. You have seen some very heated arguments and discussions that admittedly get out of hand sometimes but in the end we all share a passion for our trade. those that don't have that passion don't generally stay in it for long. And we learn from these exchanges. If nothing more than to check our facts before posting Arguments pop up everywhere on forums. follow any political forum. Those guys make us seem like choir boys compared to them. This ain't floral arrangement for little old Catholic ladies, it's plumbing.
              sigpic

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              • #8
                Re: Plumber stabbin

                thank you swong for the nice words don't forget about the family get together end of the month adam you're the one that got the 92k tip. so the next get together should be fun since the shakes are on you

                this is my take on the trade and situation.

                the old days of learning the trades, going to school, serving your apprenticeship and working hard for your check has changed.

                today it's how fast you can get rich without any formal education, training, apprenticeship, or license.

                so we have the old timers trying to teach the kids that there is more to the trade than a paycheck.

                if the states enforced the licensing laws like they do the medical profession, i doubt we would be in the situation we are now

                i feel that the majority of the guys on the forum have paid their dues in the trade. and the minority have not. there lies the issue

                rick.
                phoebe it is

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Plumber stabbin

                  I agree with that, and there's nothing wrong with making money, but I think there should be a balance between skill, knowledge and pride of workmanship. As the trade changes with the introduction of new products and methods I am seeing a decline in that balance. It would be interesting to see some sort of graph that shows the relationship of product/method to skill level required. Nobody would argue that installing PEX is harder than say threading galvanized pipe or even swetting copper. But if copper and steel have gone the way of the DoDo, does that mean that pex plumbers are or should be any less schooled or skilled. Interesting stuff, because the complexity of the task is going to determine the qualifications of the installer and the size of the paycheck in the long run, like it or not.

                  For Swong: You are not a plumber so you don't understand. Not a bad thing, it's a plumber thing. We are different people. Anyone that will willingly open a sewage ejector tank and fish a malfunctioning pump out of the pot o poo has to be just a bit different than regular folks. Do it three times a week and you'll be an angry man too
                  Last edited by NHMaster3015; 01-22-2011, 12:03 PM.
                  sigpic

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                  • #10
                    Re: Plumber stabbin

                    I don't think it matters what profession you're in, men are prideful and think they know it all.

                    Regarding this forum, arguments seem to boil down to the Plumbing Code book from what I've seen. Some guys are married to it, and don't deviate from it one bit, and chastise those who do.

                    I'm not bashful at all, I'm not married to the Plumbing Code book, but I respect it, and follow it to the best of my ability.

                    When I walk into the supply house, you have your braggers who puff out their chest, or rip fellow Plumbers to the counter people.

                    The other day I was in the Supply house and needed a Kohler flapper. A local Plumber was in there with me as well, and sat there and helped me figure out which one I needed, cause I didn't know the Kohler number. He wasn't a dick about it, and I thanked him for helping me.

                    I don't know everything regarding this trade, and I've learned quite a few things from being on this website. To be quite honest, I think we all could learn something from one other in the end.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Plumber stabbin

                      I guess I'm one of those guys that is married to the code because I have seen what happens to plumbers that are not. Always remember that even though the code protects the health and safety of the public, it also protects the plumber. When you follow the code you are exempt from liability. It is not up to anyone other than the local inspector and then the state inspector/plumbing board to interpret the code. Just because something will work is never an excuse for doing it the way it should be done. I think that adherence to the code is what differentiates us from DIY'ers and handymen.
                      sigpic

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                      • #12
                        Re: Plumber stabbin

                        Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                        I guess I'm one of those guys that is married to the code because I have seen what happens to plumbers that are not. Always remember that even though the code protects the health and safety of the public, it also protects the plumber. When you follow the code you are exempt from liability. It is not up to anyone other than the local inspector and then the state inspector/plumbing board to interpret the code. Just because something will work is never an excuse for doing it the way it should be done. I think that adherence to the code is what differentiates us from DIY'ers and handymen.
                        While I agree that it gives a veil of protection in liability situations, I have a hard time respecting any code as the only right way to do something because.......

                        THERE ARE MULTIPLE FREAKIN' CODES FOR THE SAME STUFF! Different measurements here, can't put that there, etc. etc.

                        That really degrades the foundation of a code when it is in disagreement with another code regarding the same fixture or situation and everything is functioning fine.

                        Any hardline enforcement in those situations has no foundation.

                        I also know the egotistical know-it-alls and the I-make-more-than-you guys at the counter for my area. Well, they don't know it all & don't always make more. But they will never get a hand from me for their whole life without some drastic change. Nothing.

                        On the other end, I know the opposite guys too. I will do whatever I can to help them & feel they would do the same.


                        J.C.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Plumber stabbin

                          Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                          I guess I'm one of those guys that is married to the code because I have seen what happens to plumbers that are not. Always remember that even though the code protects the health and safety of the public, it also protects the plumber. When you follow the code you are exempt from liability. It is not up to anyone other than the local inspector and then the state inspector/plumbing board to interpret the code. Just because something will work is never an excuse for doing it the way it should be done. I think that adherence to the code is what differentiates us from DIY'ers and handymen.
                          You make very valid points, and I generally agree with you when it comes to major violations that would put the homeowner's health at risk. I'm talking about the small picky things in the code book, that have no bearing on anyone's health.

                          Not sure where you live, but where I live, I have yet to not walk in a house and not see a Plumbing Code Violation.

                          For example: Some of these new homes in my area, have Plumbing systems that are impeccable and fantastic looking. But the Plumber who did it, didn't install cleanout's at the base of his stacks. In some of those instances I can see why they were not installed, but it's in the code book.

                          Air gaps are not installed for the dishwasher. New Jersey which is "one" of the toughest Plumbing coded area's in the country...I never see them there either.

                          Besides major Plumbing violations which would put someone health at risk, are we suppose to inform the customer of all the code violations we see in their home? I would think they would throw me out of their house, and I would be the gues honor on Angies List, being ripped.

                          But I hear what you're say NH...I do agree with many of your points.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Plumber stabbin

                            I think this group is a pretty rare breed of plumbers, in that we are very passionate about plumbing.

                            NHmaster I understand your comment about plumbing not being floral arrangements for little old Catholic ladies. I spent time in the military and law enforcement and some of those guys were pretty tough, but one thing we always did was take care of our own.

                            I was thinking about Aaron91 and how he made no bones about being a apprentice and he would post pictures of his work only to get the beat down. I kinda admired him for letting it all out there.
                            Anyone can tear a man down, few can build one up.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Plumber stabbin

                              Swong,


                              Are you referring to this thread?
                              Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

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