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2 Valve to Pressure Balance Conversion

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  • #46
    Re: 2 Valve to Pressure Balance Conversion

    Originally posted by LThompson View Post
    u like those flux and heat 90s?
    I always add solder. Yes they work well for remodels and repair work.

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    • #47
      Re: 2 Valve to Pressure Balance Conversion

      I've installed that one or one that's close by HG. Worked very well.

      Only BS I recall is that little "Allen Wrench Leveler".

      Didn't much care for that.


      J.C.

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: 2 Valve to Pressure Balance Conversion

        Originally posted by geno gardner View Post
        Thanks JC. My son was about six months away from coming home from the Army and Iraq when I was rehabbing the condo for him. Since he had gotten kidney stones from not having enough drinking water available I figured I would do what I could to ensure he got enough water out of all his fixtures. I don't normally go to quite that extent with the bender. Although I do use the benders a great deal.

        T.M. I put in another pic for you. Hopefully in this one you will be able to see for yourself that the valve is straight. If you think I would mount a valve crookedly for my hero, or anyone else for that matter, you are wrong. Regarding the balancing of the body spray loops I realize the lines to the spray heads aren't identical in length, but the difference is in straight pipe not elbows so the relative difference is not nearly as great as if I had all equal lengths of pipe but had one more 90 in the line. Moreover, the Hansgrohe shower valve puts out more water than the combined flow rate of the three body sprays so functionally the body sprays all operate the same. Perhaps you would like a video of this?

        Best of all. No dings.
        No dings...No doubt.
        Very nice work Geno.
        don't fuss over this kind of stuff(Who am I to talk)

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        • #49
          Re: 2 Valve to Pressure Balance Conversion

          Originally posted by geno gardner View Post
          Thanks JC. My son was about six months away from coming home from the Army and Iraq when I was rehabbing the condo for him. Since he had gotten kidney stones from not having enough drinking water available I figured I would do what I could to ensure he got enough water out of all his fixtures. I don't normally go to quite that extent with the bender. Although I do use the benders a great deal.

          T.M. I put in another pic for you. Hopefully in this one you will be able to see for yourself that the valve is straight. If you think I would mount a valve crookedly for my hero, or anyone else for that matter, you are wrong. Regarding the balancing of the body spray loops I realize the lines to the spray heads aren't identical in length, but the difference is in straight pipe not elbows so the relative difference is not nearly as great as if I had all equal lengths of pipe but had one more 90 in the line. Moreover, the Hansgrohe shower valve puts out more water than the combined flow rate of the three body sprays so functionally the body sprays all operate the same. Perhaps you would like a video of this?

          Best of all. No dings.
          I believe the sprays operate the same......maybe this time....but its still piped WRONG. Its not a balancing loop as you intended so that means you just made looops and joints that were not needed. But your right no dings that I can see.

          Its simply wasted pipe and fittings. Sorry.

          Moreover?? It doesn't matter that the shower valve puts out more water than the 3 body sprays can deliver......they still can have different flow rates based on how its piped. You got lucky basically is what i'm saying.
          Last edited by TheMaster; 02-09-2011, 11:55 PM.

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          • #50
            Re: 2 Valve to Pressure Balance Conversion

            Rick would have Pro-Pressed the whole thing

            Ironranger would have Pexified it

            Anybody that installs TS valves and just uses the escution and the plastic backer plate to clamp the valve to the wall should be beaten to death with a 10" pipe wrench ( takes longer ) Nothing is more GD aggravating than popping the last escution screw and seeing the valve slap back and sideways into the wall cavity Argggggggggggg....Happens a whole lot with the pex crowd
            sigpic

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            • #51
              Re: 2 Valve to Pressure Balance Conversion

              Originally posted by TheMaster View Post
              I believe the sprays operate the same......maybe this time....but its still piped WRONG. Its not a balancing loop as you intended so that means you just made looops and joints that were not needed. But your right no dings that I can see.

              Its simply wasted pipe and fittings. Sorry.

              Moreover?? It doesn't matter that the shower valve puts out more water than the 3 body sprays can deliver......they still can have different flow rates based on how its piped. You got lucky basically is what i'm saying.
              I'm not sure that he's wrong by doing it as he has done. Not all manufacturers have it in their installation recommendations to come off a valve into a loop with T's off the loop for the body spray system.

              As I recall, some have diagrams coming off a valve into just a "tree". One straight line with T's off of it with sprays connected. No loop at all.


              J.C.

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: 2 Valve to Pressure Balance Conversion

                Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
                I'm not sure that he's wrong by doing it as he has done. Not all manufacturers have it in their installation recommendations to come off a valve into a loop with T's off the loop for the body spray system.

                As I recall, some have diagrams coming off a valve into just a "tree". One straight line with T's off of it with sprays connected. No loop at all.


                J.C.
                Their wrong too then,they should be on a loop. A balancing loop is just that...a loop. He has one straight vertical pipe with three body sprays on it and its not balanced. They may spray the same in this instance but its by luck.....He made an attempt at a balance loop.

                Fluid dynamics are not selective regardless of who manufactured the valve.

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                • #53
                  Re: 2 Valve to Pressure Balance Conversion

                  Originally posted by TheMaster View Post
                  Their wrong too then,they should be on a loop. A balancing loop is just that...a loop. He has one straight vertical pipe with three body sprays on it and its not balanced. They may spray the same in this instance but its by luck.....He made an attempt at a balance loop.

                  Fluid dynamics are not selective regardless of who manufactured the valve.
                  Just for clarity, you have stated that the manufacturers are wrong in their recommended installation schematics if shown without a loop and should be disregarded & installed in a loop. Right?


                  J.C.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: 2 Valve to Pressure Balance Conversion

                    Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
                    Just for clarity, you have stated that the manufacturers are wrong in their recommended installation schematics if shown without a loop and should be disregarded & installed in a loop. Right?


                    J.C.
                    You cant show me where they specifically say not to install the sprays on a loop.

                    The makers of wax seals also say to put the wax on the toilet.....another really stupid idea. I dont follow instructions when I know better.

                    Thats as clear as it gets.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: 2 Valve to Pressure Balance Conversion

                      Originally posted by TheMaster View Post
                      You cant show me where they specifically say not to install the sprays on a loop.

                      The makers of wax seals also say to put the wax on the toilet.....another really stupid idea. I dont follow instructions when I know better.
                      I also can't show you where they specifically say one must install the sprays on a loop.

                      So, once again, for the record.....You state at Post 52 that the manufacturers are wrong in their recommended installation schematics if shown without a loop and should be disregarded & installed in a loop. Right?

                      Thanks.


                      J.C.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: 2 Valve to Pressure Balance Conversion

                        Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
                        I also can't show you where they specifically say one must install the sprays on a loop.

                        So, once again, for the record.....You state at Post 52 that the manufacturers are wrong in their recommended installation schematics if shown without a loop and should be disregarded & installed in a loop. Right?

                        Thanks.


                        J.C.
                        Thats right...they should be installed on a balancing loop for optimum function under all conditions.

                        I can show you where at least two manufactures say use a loop.....and I cant find any that says NOT to install a loop and specifically says it will work without a loop....Can You?

                        Plus I know better because I was the factory service company for the grohe rep and 3 showrooms....I've corrected many mistakes with custom shower installs during new construction.....from trim being installed wrong to fuctions not operating in the proper order or they are not installed on a balance loop.

                        Genogardner used a hansgroheIII rough valve. The port he used for the body sprays also shares a fuction...and the body sprays and the other fuction can be ran together...for example the body sprays and a showerhead...or a handshower. When he shares those functions I know for a fact that the center body spray will flow more volume and it would be noticed.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: 2 Valve to Pressure Balance Conversion

                          Originally posted by TheMaster View Post
                          Thats right...they should be installed on a balancing loop for optimum function under all conditions.

                          I can show you where at least two manufactures say use a loop.....and I cant find any that says NOT to install a loop and specifically says it will work without a loop....Can You?

                          Plus I know better because I was the factory service company for the grohe rep and 3 showrooms....I've corrected many mistakes with custom shower installs during new construction.....from trim being installed wrong to fuctions not operating in the proper order or they are not installed on a balance loop.

                          Genogardner used a hansgroheIII rough valve. The port he used for the body sprays also shares a fuction...and the body sprays and the other fuction can be ran together...for example the body sprays and a showerhead...or a handshower. When he shares those functions I know for a fact that the center body spray will flow more volume and it would be noticed.

                          Pages 19-20.

                          http://www.hansgrohe-usa.com/cps/rde...ech_manual.pdf


                          J.C.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: 2 Valve to Pressure Balance Conversion

                            Bottom line is genogardner tried to break my balls and he ened up getting his cut off......Regardless of if it works or not or if the manufacturer says it will work or not. He made an attempt at balancing loop and its not balanced....thank GOD it didn't cause a problem. Sorry but he punked himself.....I just pointed it out. You notice I didn't argue about the ding....infact I owned up to it the next day after I checked in person.

                            They should be on a loop or perfect equal developed lenghts between heads and connections......just like a water heater in parallel.

                            He didn't make a loop. He did not measure the developed lenght between bodysprays. While all along swearing he's balancing the system with the loops he made.

                            I think its funny he put more thought on the bends than how it should be piped then posts the pic to try and break my balls about a ding.

                            All in good fun...everyone pipe things how you want and I'll pipe it how I want. Have a nice evening.

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                            • #59
                              Re: 2 Valve to Pressure Balance Conversion

                              Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
                              I cant make the link work but I dont need to. I read it lastnight. It does not say not to use a loop......I believe they are showing typical layouts....and how the fuctions work....its not a piping diagram IMO. I KNOW a balance loop works every time....you will never get anyone to say that a tree type hook up will everytime.

                              So to summerize.

                              Your link does not say NOT to install it on a loop
                              The piping that genogardner did in no way matched what you believe is hangrohes piping diagram....now does it? And its not a balanced loop....so WTH is it? Art?

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: 2 Valve to Pressure Balance Conversion

                                Originally posted by TheMaster View Post
                                I cant make the link work but I dont need to. I read it lastnight. It does not say not to use a loop......I believe they are showing typical layouts....and how the fuctions work....its not a piping diagram IMO. I KNOW a balance loop works every time....you will never get anyone to say that a tree type hook up will everytime.

                                So to summerize.

                                Your link does not say NOT to install it on a loop
                                The piping that genogardner did in no way matched what you believe is hangrohes piping diagram....now does it? And its not a balanced loop....so WTH is it? Art?
                                The link works fine. I clicked it again directly from the post I provided just to make sure. It is a 17.3 MB HansGrohe Technical Manual in .pdf format that contains the specific valve that genogardner installed with diagrams for install depending on how one wants it to operate.

                                TheMaster: "I cant find any that says NOT to install a loop and specifically says it will work without a loop....Can You?"

                                Pages 19-20 answers your questions.


                                J.C.

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