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  • #16
    Re: ABS fail

    Originally posted by Jay Mpls View Post
    I have had a pile of calls in the past few weeks that are abs leaks.All from kitchen lines and most 1 1/2.
    Most have failed on the pipe right next to the fittings.
    They are usually cracked partially around the joint like they are bordering on a clean break.
    Most of these houses are built 80's ish.
    Are we selling houses to too many violent people or what!?
    I never see this type of failure from pvc.
    As a plumber and drain cleaner I am partial to pvc.
    It sounds like there may be a batch of the defective ABS that was involved in a major class action in the 90s. A guy out of Texas sold a bunch of materials he claimed were virgin ABS filler. It turned out to be ground up everything which he dyed black. The result were failures as you described. If you can, try to find the date codes and Manufacturer.

    Mark
    Last edited by ToUtahNow; 03-22-2011, 11:57 PM.
    "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

    I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

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    • #17
      Re: ABS fail

      Originally posted by gear junkie View Post
      It's funny, working in Virginia Beach, only 1 store sold ABS and it was only seen in mobile homes. Go to CA and it's everywhere and you can't even get pvc if you wanted to.
      In this part of California our supply houses sell both ABS and PVC/DWV. In fact, when I moved from SoCal to up here to CenCal in the 90's, PVC/DWV was king and I learned to like it right away. Much straighter than ABS. I will buy ABS if thats what the existing is to keep it all uniform.

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      • #18
        Re: ABS fail

        I see it out here.
        Attached Files

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        • #19
          Re: ABS fail

          Originally posted by Chemeng View Post
          If I'm not mistaken, I believe the cracking ABS was due to the use of non virgin resins in the 80's. I think I read that on a thread.....correct me if Im wrong...I think it was Plumber Rick that mentioned it.

          Nothing wrong with ABS when manufactured correctly....no need for primer as with ABS. We use yellow glue for ABS in Canada instead of the black.
          That is correct, replaced a lot of 80's abs piping back when I lived in Idaho...

          I live in Nebraska and PVC is it around here. I don't mind PVC so much but I prefer ABS. ABS Glue melts the pipe to the fitting welding it together while PVC glues the pipe to the fitting. PVC shatters but ABS can take a hell of a beating.
          Last edited by NEPlumber; 03-23-2011, 12:05 AM.

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          • #20
            Re: ABS fail

            there is a reason why the joint will fail at the glue line. just fixed one this weekend.

            the glue actually melts the plastic and welds it together. the non virgin resins that were mixed in got damaged by the glue. of course in the socket/ pipe is held together by the fitting. but just outside of the fitting, it caused a hairline crack.

            over the years i've fixed my share of bad pipe. as far as i know, if you make the transition with a band/ mission/ fernco, you'll be ok. the pipe was ok, it was the solvent in the glue that reacted with the non virgin resins.

            the reason why the kitchen is affected more is that the kitchen sees the largest temperature range from a dishwasher back to ice water/ ice cubes. the expansion and contraction is the issue.

            rick.
            phoebe it is

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            • #21
              Re: ABS fail

              I too have had experience with the 80's ABS fiasco. Had several apartment complexes and houses in San diego, CA. Plumbed with the stuff. It seemed to be most common on the 3" pipe coming out of the santee going to the toilet where I was at. I think part of it was the glue and the stress of the line flexing. I also had problems getting abs to hold test in large houses. Carlsbad, Ca. made me fill two 8,000 sqft. houses completely to the rim on the roof, with the test ball at the sewer main. It was very frustrating. Glad I'm back in PVC land.
              "don't put that in your mouth, you don't know where it's been"

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              • #22
                Re: ABS fail

                Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                there is a reason why the joint will fail at the glue line. just fixed one this weekend.

                the glue actually melts the plastic and welds it together. the non virgin resins that were mixed in got damaged by the glue. of course in the socket/ pipe is held together by the fitting. but just outside of the fitting, it caused a hairline crack.

                over the years i've fixed my share of bad pipe. as far as i know, if you make the transition with a band/ mission/ fernco, you'll be ok. the pipe was ok, it was the solvent in the glue that reacted with the non virgin resins.

                the reason why the kitchen is affected more is that the kitchen sees the largest temperature range from a dishwasher back to ice water/ ice cubes. the expansion and contraction is the issue.

                rick.
                I'm not sure I would say the pipe is okay. The material they were selling as filler was old tires, computer cases, telephones and whatever other garbage they could find. That said the only way to really fix it it to replace all of the defective pipe. The only repair short of that that makes any sense is the bands as you suggested.

                Mark
                "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: ABS fail

                  Wow, good to know. I am partial to ABS because its not brittle like PVC, never seen an ABS failure...yet.
                  Ray

                  “Wealth is the product of man's capacity to think.”— Francisco d'Anconia
                  Atlas Shrugged (Part 2, Chapter 2, Page 411)

                  www.mauiplumbinginc.com

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                  • #24
                    Re: ABS fail

                    I have also used ABS for as long as I've been plumbing. PVC is special order around here.

                    I have never seen a ABS failure in almost 30 years.

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                    • #25
                      I've seen

                      Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                      I have suspected for years now that ABS failures were going to start cropping up. What happens is that if the excess glue is not wiped from the joint it eats into the pipe and weakens it right at the joint. CPVC has similar problems. In the defense of ABS the manugacturers do tell you to not leave a glue bead after assembly.
                      Plumbers actually put extra glue around joints and I've questioned each and every one. I usually get the statement "just for good measure" in response. Amazing!

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