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  • ABS fail

    I have had a pile of calls in the past few weeks that are abs leaks.All from kitchen lines and most 1 1/2.
    Most have failed on the pipe right next to the fittings.
    They are usually cracked partially around the joint like they are bordering on a clean break.
    Most of these houses are built 80's ish.
    Are we selling houses to too many violent people or what!?
    I never see this type of failure from pvc.
    As a plumber and drain cleaner I am partial to pvc.
    Last edited by Jay Mpls; 03-22-2011, 07:51 PM. Reason: exploded body parts

  • #2
    Re: ABS fail

    Very little abs around here, almost none i have seen a few fittings thin wall around trailers , it always felt brittle to me

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: ABS fail

      I have suspected for years now that ABS failures were going to start cropping up. What happens is that if the excess glue is not wiped from the joint it eats into the pipe and weakens it right at the joint. CPVC has similar problems. In the defense of ABS the manugacturers do tell you to not leave a glue bead after assembly.
      sigpic

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      • #4
        Re: ABS fail

        Originally posted by Jay Mpls View Post
        I have had a pile of calls in the past few weeks that are abs leaks.All from kitchen lines and most 1 1/2.
        Most have failed on the pipe right next to the fittings.
        They are usually cracked partially around the joint like they are bordering on a clean break.
        Most of these houses are built 80's ish.
        Are we selling houses to too many violent people or what!?
        I never see this type of failure from pvc.
        As a plumber and drain cleaner I am partial to pvc.

        Hi Jay!!

        Have you noticed if those kitchen sinks were also draining dishwashers as well? (I'm wondering if the hot water temp is involved in the failure mode)

        Or... are there garbage disposals on all the lines? Maybe the vibration played a part.

        Also.. did you notice if the ABS was foamcore, solid, or both. (I don't know where solid ABS can be purchased in the twin cities any more)

        BTW: I agree with you regarding PVC.

        I've seen ABS combos fail at the bottom of 3 story stacks. (The waste wore a hole right through the bottom of the ABS!!!) I haven't seen this happen yet with PVC fittings, but I'm sure that day is coming as the material ages.
        Time flies like an arrow.

        Fruit flies like a banana.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: ABS fail

          Jay do you see a lot of ABS down there? I hardly ever see it up here unless it's a manufactured home made out of state. I'm pretty sure ABS is illegal in Mn. now. Was it legal at one time, I don't remember or is it more of a Minneapolis thing?

          -confused easily

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: ABS fail

            Originally posted by ironranger View Post
            Jay do you see a lot of ABS down there? I hardly ever see it up here unless it's a manufactured home made out of state. I'm pretty sure ABS is illegal in Mn. now. Was it legal at one time, I don't remember or is it more of a Minneapolis thing?

            -confused easily
            Wishful thinking. Sadly ABS is legal in Minnesota and has been at least since I was in plumbing school in 1979. Heck, even sharkbites are legal now. I see a fair amount of ABS. I carry none on my truck and don't use it when I can avoid it.

            Page 17 of the 2009 Minnesota Plumbing Code.

            <VI. PLASTIC PIPE AND FITTINGS DRAIN, WASTE AND VENT
            6A Acrylonitrile-Butadiene-Styrene (ABS) D2661 L-P-322a
            FHA-MPS NSF14 CSA-B181.1 CS270
            Type 1, Schedule 40 Cellular core F628>
            Time flies like an arrow.

            Fruit flies like a banana.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: ABS fail

              It's funny, working in Virginia Beach, only 1 store sold ABS and it was only seen in mobile homes. Go to CA and it's everywhere and you can't even get pvc if you wanted to.
              Buy cheap, buy twice.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: ABS fail

                I'm starting to see ABS breaks here as well.

                1 was on a 3 " line and the other on an 1 1/2" line.

                ABS hasn't been installed new in this area since the very early 80's.

                Right next door in New Jersey...that's all they sell.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: ABS fail

                  Same when I worked in Ca., all ABS and no PVC anywhere. I move back home to Mn. and it's all PVC (up north here) and hardly ever see ABS. I thought it was weird at first but now it's opposite for me to see ABS. For some reason I thought Mn. didn't allow it. I don't even remember it being brought up when I studied for or took the Masters test here in Mn. Though I think I remember someone saying ABS is more toxic when it burns vs PVC. Heck I don't think Ferguson or Goodin up here even carries ABS do they?
                  I don't know, I don't even remember yesterday these days.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: ABS fail

                    I have had my plumber replace many ABS kitchen drain pipes. Most of them have linear cracks in the pipe itself but not to many joint breaks. He told me its pretty common to see this failure on kitchen drains with ABS. It seems to be the only place we have come across failures.

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                    • #11
                      Re: ABS fail

                      One thing I do still remember is you always knew a plumber because of all the ABS glue all over his clothes. That stuff just didn't come off.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: ABS fail

                        Originally posted by ironranger View Post
                        Same when I worked in Ca., all ABS and no PVC anywhere. I move back home to Mn. and it's all PVC (up north here) and hardly ever see ABS. I thought it was weird at first but now it's opposite for me to see ABS. For some reason I thought Mn. didn't allow it. I don't even remember it being brought up when I studied for or took the Masters test here in Mn. Though I think I remember someone saying ABS is more toxic when it burns vs PVC. Heck I don't think Ferguson or Goodin up here even carries ABS do they?
                        I don't know, I don't even remember yesterday these days.
                        Goodin and Ferguson in the Twin Cities sell ABS. From questions I've asked, it seems that more ABS is sold here for new construction. It's cheaper than PVC and let's face it, bidding new construction work is definitely cost sensitive.
                        Time flies like an arrow.

                        Fruit flies like a banana.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: ABS fail

                          If I'm not mistaken, I believe the cracking ABS was due to the use of non virgin resins in the 80's. I think I read that on a thread.....correct me if Im wrong...I think it was Plumber Rick that mentioned it.

                          Nothing wrong with ABS when manufactured correctly....no need for primer as with ABS. We use yellow glue for ABS in Canada instead of the black.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: ABS fail

                            Originally posted by Chemeng View Post
                            If I'm not mistaken, I believe the cracking ABS was due to the use of non virgin resins in the 80's. I think I read that on a thread.....correct me if Im wrong...I think it was Plumber Rick that mentioned it.

                            Nothing wrong with ABS when manufactured correctly....no need for primer as with ABS. We use yellow glue for ABS in Canada instead of the black.

                            Thanks Chemeng!!! I had never heard of this before.

                            http://www.procheck.cc/abs.htm

                            These pipe manufacturers aren't known to me, so I don't think they're prevalent in Mn.
                            Time flies like an arrow.

                            Fruit flies like a banana.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: ABS fail

                              Thanks Geno, I did not know that. I don't do much for new construction up here, mostly service and remodels and I sure don't want to start stocking both. I have a hard enough time keeping the fittings in order the way it is now.





                              Originally posted by geno gardner View Post
                              Goodin and Ferguson in the Twin Cities sell ABS. From questions I've asked, it seems that more ABS is sold here for new construction. It's cheaper than PVC and let's face it, bidding new construction work is definitely cost sensitive.

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