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Please tell me you don't.

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  • Please tell me you don't.

    Hello, In my area, there have been a few plumbers still using Lead stubouts for toilets. They run everything else out of pvc, and then use Lead to go from pvc to toilet. I have yet to see one screwed down or installed properly. This one is in a 2002 home and they didn't screw it down, and there were holes in the lead to flange. If you look at the picture with the flashlight, you can see light around the one Single wax ring (no horn). GEE, I don't know why the toilet was rocking, and leaking. If you are still using these lead connections. PLEASE STOP. Run 3" then go into a 4x3 90, run up 4" through the floor and cap it off. When the Builder figures out what flooring he is putting in and you come back for a final install, then cut the pipe, install the flange, DRILL INTO THE CONCRETE AND SECURE THE FLANGE. THOSE LITTLE HOLES IN THE FLANGE AREN'T JUST FOR LOOKS. Oh wait, Never mind, keep doing what your doing. I'll be there in a few years to fix it for a few hundred.
    https://picasaweb.google.com/1174663...64/LeadFlange#
    "don't put that in your mouth, you don't know where it's been"

  • #2
    Re: Please tell me you don't.

    I,ve seen 40-50 yr old leads bends still working fine .ever see a pvc flange with the ears busted off, that doesn't happen quite so often with a brass flange. Maybe chalk it up to poor installation not bad material

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    • #3
      Re: Please tell me you don't.

      "Hello, In my area, there have been a few plumbers still using Lead stubouts for toilets. They run everything else out of pvc, and then use Lead to go from pvc to toilet."


      Yah, but is this "code" in your area, or are these guys doing this just for fun or don't want to move on with the times? Seems like alot more work and for what benefit/reason? Must be code.....?

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      • #4
        Re: Please tell me you don't.

        i've only seen 1 in 35 years

        but i still prefer a leaded on cast iron ring over an instant set.

        rick.
        phoebe it is

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        • #5
          Re: Please tell me you don't.

          Just wondering....so 3" or 4" lead pipe is still available for residential and is still allowed by most codes in the USA?

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          • #6
            Re: Please tell me you don't.

            Running everything in pvc and then using lead on a closet bend is the dumbest thing I've ever heard of almost Are you serious? In a new home? It's depressing to know people are actually that stupid.

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            • #7
              Re: Please tell me you don't.

              Generally use of lead stubs is only found in commercial applications. I do see them in many older homes, but they are no longer used in residential construction anywhere I have been. There is absolutely nothing wrong with using it and it is required in many instances depending on fire spread regulations in multi-story commercial applications. I have seen some instances where it is being replaced with system 15 pvc.
              The real problem occurs not from the use of the lead stub, but from the flange not being properly anchored, and that is what should be focused on. Too often I also have had to fix flanges that were left loose under the lead stub. Just common sense to anchor those with brass screws or smack-pins. (as per code)

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              • #8
                Re: Please tell me you don't.

                Originally posted by TheMaster View Post
                It's depressing to know people are actually that stupid.
                Dood, really that is kinda rude. let's instead find out if there is a reason for what is being done, or if there is a lack of proper training. That is what I appreciate about this forum, the ability to learn a new thing or 2, and find out what others do differently in other jurisdictions and why.

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                • #9
                  Re: Please tell me you don't.

                  Originally posted by shock1964 View Post
                  Dood, really that is kinda rude. let's instead find out if there is a reason for what is being done, or if there is a lack of proper training. That is what I appreciate about this forum, the ability to learn a new thing or 2, and find out what others do differently in other jurisdictions and why.
                  Ask the original poster if he thinks its stupid. Re-read his post. Its stupid to pipe the entire house in PVC and then stub up with lead for a toilet....plain stupid.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Please tell me you don't.

                    Jay, is there any chance that this is a local thing dictated by a local inspector?
                    sigpic

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                    • #11
                      Re: Please tell me you don't.

                      There is NO Code requirement for this or has there been since the late 80's in this area. This is not Commercial, This is New home construction. They are only using the lead on the downstairs toilets. It's not recommended, but the inspectors will allow it. I have met 3 of the plumbers that are doing this. When I asked, I got told that sometimes they missed the walls, so the lead allowed them to move it over just a little bit. This was the case in the pictures I took. the lead was all distorted. I am not arguing with anyone that wants to use lead, as long as it is done right. when you look down into the pipe, there should be no obstructions. This has not been the case here. In some cases the pipe was smashed during the construction of the home so bad, that I have had to jackhammer it out and run PVC. We do have older homes here, and I carry lead and brass flanges for repairs on them, but my thoughts are is this is just stupid. If you have a problem with Pvc flanges, then why use them upstairs. Here is a picture of what they are using. I couldn't find a picture of the 90 degree version. http://www.dslreports.com/r0/download/1407638.thumb600~2c97fd45e1988b5139ab88bae5ac4c8c/DSCF1312.JPG/thumb.jpg
                      "don't put that in your mouth, you don't know where it's been"

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                      • #12
                        Re: Please tell me you don't.

                        Ahhhh, so they are using the "close enough" method Suppose it saves having to figure out the tape measure.
                        sigpic

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                        • #13
                          Re: Please tell me you don't.

                          sounds like they are roughing the plumbing in literally! haha I like to stub up with 4 inch and use a cast iron repair flange cause the pvc flanges tend to break to often!

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                          • #14
                            Re: Please tell me you don't.

                            much better to be long than short. this also allows for a perfect fit on the finish floor.

                            with an internal snap cutter, i can set it and forget it

                            rick.
                            phoebe it is

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Please tell me you don't.

                              We have used lead bends for a number of reasons on new construction, in slabs as well as in ceilings/floor joists conventional framing.

                              First of all, I don't know who is going to pretend they never have had an underground off an inch or so here or there. There are so many different hammer heads on these job sites it is nearly impossible to have everyone pulling their numbers from the same place, and forget about the masons they are brutal on rough-ins. So having a little wiggle room with the lead is a bonus, especially in ADA applications where the numbers are a lot more exacting.

                              Second, in some rare cases, where we end up very high in a ceiling at the end of a long run, and a PVC elbow is going to throw the flange too high in the bath. The lead bend allows us to be just about against the bottom of the sub floor and still get a flange on.

                              Believe me, the lead bends costs about 30x more than a closet flange so if they didn't have their uses we wouldn't be buying them.

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