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  • Moen Diverter with Posi Temp Cartridge

    I have been using Moen diverters for over 25 years. I just recently installed a sweat x posi temp in a customers house. Posi Temp pulled prior to soldering. I have installed thousands. He called me up a few days later telling me it was dripping. I figured the norm, debris from solder ect..... I called Moen and had a cartridge sent to me. I replaced with new cartridge and the same results. I called a good friend of mine who is a plumber and he said once in a life time the bore of diverter will be off and cannot be fixed. I called Moen for some advice and their thoughts and maybe even a local rep in area for further help. They stated no such person available. We talked more trying to figure out problem. They stated all diverters are pressure tested at factory and is impossible. They decided to send me 5 cartridges and 2 new diverters. I decided to cut new diverter out and replace with a new one. The unfortunate part was that there was tile on front of tub wall and behind tub wall. The entire bathroom redone but nothing I could not repair. I replaced diverter and I could not believe it, it was dripping again. It is a tub and shower diverter , there is a hand held shower at shower head. I checked water pressure at hose bib with a pressure of 80 even though water pressure in the past has never been an issue but am brain storming everything. Water Heater has an expansion tank. Is water in hose in shower head back siphoning? I am at my witts end on this one and have no logical explanation. His second bathroom has an old chateau diverter with no drips. Nothing else in house is dripping. I would appreciate and advice or thoughts on what the problem could be. I know I cannot be the only person to experience this, or could I ? Moen cannot explain and nor can I . Please help. Thanks
    The Plumber/Firefighter

  • #2
    Re: Moen Diverter with Posi Temp Cartridge

    I never experienced anything like that with a brand new valve body from Moen. After a new install, I may get debris in the stem, but that's about it.

    If it's not siphoning because of the hand held, look to see if there are any gouges inside the valve body where the stem goes.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Moen Diverter with Posi Temp Cartridge

      Change the whole valve body and be done with it. Better yet, dump it and install a Delta or Symmons.
      sigpic

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Moen Diverter with Posi Temp Cartridge

        we have 2 hand held showers. 1 drips and 1 doesn't. the dripper will eventually stop. when it's siphons ends. if i let hand held lay in tub that cures it. the valve on dripper is 48" oc off floor. non is 26" oc off floor for what it's worth. lots a luck. breid................

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Moen Diverter with Posi Temp Cartridge

          if you like delta, you should talk to the customer that i'm working for today. this will be the fourth replacement pb cart. he supplied faucet, that's probably why i'm smiling. breid...............

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Moen Diverter with Posi Temp Cartridge

            Originally posted by Fred the plumber View Post
            I have been using Moen diverters for over 25 years. I just recently installed a sweat x posi temp in a customers house. Posi Temp pulled prior to soldering. I have installed thousands. He called me up a few days later telling me it was dripping. I figured the norm, debris from solder ect..... I called Moen and had a cartridge sent to me. I replaced with new cartridge and the same results. I called a good friend of mine who is a plumber and he said once in a life time the bore of diverter will be off and cannot be fixed. I called Moen for some advice and their thoughts and maybe even a local rep in area for further help. They stated no such person available. We talked more trying to figure out problem. They stated all diverters are pressure tested at factory and is impossible. They decided to send me 5 cartridges and 2 new diverters. I decided to cut new diverter out and replace with a new one. The unfortunate part was that there was tile on front of tub wall and behind tub wall. The entire bathroom redone but nothing I could not repair. I replaced diverter and I could not believe it, it was dripping again. It is a tub and shower diverter , there is a hand held shower at shower head. I checked water pressure at hose bib with a pressure of 80 even though water pressure in the past has never been an issue but am brain storming everything. Water Heater has an expansion tank. Is water in hose in shower head back siphoning? I am at my witts end on this one and have no logical explanation. His second bathroom has an old chateau diverter with no drips. Nothing else in house is dripping. I would appreciate and advice or thoughts on what the problem could be. I know I cannot be the only person to experience this, or could I ? Moen cannot explain and nor can I . Please help. Thanks
            Have you removed the handheld and hose to see if its siphoning?

            Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
            Change the whole valve body and be done with it. Better yet, dump it and install a Delta or Symmons.
            Good advice.

            Originally posted by breid1903 View Post
            if you like delta, you should talk to the customer that i'm working for today. this will be the fourth replacement pb cart. he supplied faucet, that's probably why i'm smiling. breid...............
            Thermal expansion? They all have problems but I find that Delta lasts at least 10-15 years with good water quality....do you change the seats and springs or just automatically replace the cartridge?

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Moen Diverter with Posi Temp Cartridge

              need a little more info about the dripping.

              others suggested the hand held siphoning but how much water and how long is it dripping for?

              remove the handheld and put a bucket under the connection. let it sit and see if it fills the bucket or stops. even if you need to do an overnight test.

              are there internal stops? if so, shut them and see if it stops leaking

              i like moen over delta. symmons is junk with very poor choice of trim.

              i can't picture 2 factory defects in a row.

              rick.
              phoebe it is

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Moen Diverter with Posi Temp Cartridge

                Thanks for all of the help. It's was replaced and like Rick said I highly doubt it could happen twice. The bore of the first diverter looked great , the new install looks great and both flushed numerous times. The drip tinkles in spurts out of tub spout and fills up to approximately a quart of water. It has ball valves at access panel. Good ideas from all of you. Will shut ball valves off for test in the morning making sure it's right after using shower. I will also have homeowner disconnect hand held shower and leave valves on to see what happens as far as dripping out of tub spout. I have never had anything like this ever happen. None of this should happen . I really appreciate all of your help and will keep u updated. I lost my butt on this one. The homeowner is not happy at all . Homeowner told me if he submits the bill they will reimburse me a whopping 100.00 dollars . Something is better then nothing. I am very surprised they have no reps to send out. I have been a moen guy my whole life and usually all is good. Again, I welcome any advice and thanks to all of you.
                The Plumber/Firefighter

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Moen Diverter with Posi Temp Cartridge

                  Breid , on a moen u replace the cartridge. It has no springs and washers like delta.
                  The Plumber/Firefighter

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Moen Diverter with Posi Temp Cartridge

                    Originally posted by Fred the plumber View Post
                    Breid , on a moen u replace the cartridge. It has no springs and washers like delta.
                    Delta sucks imo.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Moen Diverter with Posi Temp Cartridge

                      Originally posted by Flux View Post
                      Delta sucks imo.
                      What experiences did you have with Delta faucets to form that opinion?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        tm

                        we have 3 new carts, i have tried every configuration that i could think of. which i might add was a hell of a lot more than the service advisers(script readers) came up with. today they finally decided that we could have a new valve. we have an obstruction in the valve body. we had water through the cart but that was it. i have a delta and a moen in my house. both non anti-scald. they both have their pluses and minuses. your call. i will say this, i don't have a small box of tools to get carts out of deltas. just an observation. breid..............

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Moen Diverter with Posi Temp Cartridge

                          Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                          symmons is junk with very poor choice of trim.


                          rick.

                          That's the first bad thing I've heard about Symmons though Rick

                          One of my supply houses swears by Symmons. He sells online and says that he sells 5X's as many Symmons as other brands.

                          I've never installed one, but the one nice thing about Symmons is that all the trim is interchangeable. That's not always true for Moen or Delta or especially Grohe (which has about a dozen different valves).

                          There are about 100+ Moen tub/shower faucets up here for every 1 Delta. When I go to Wisconsin, it's about 50/50

                          I don't see any point in getting into a debate about Moen/Delta. It's like the whole Ford/Chevy debate. You like what you like.

                          In the end they are both medium quality at best. Moen uses so many plastic parts these days it makes me ill. Most suppliers don't even have Delta, so I can't compare, only thing I know is that HD, Menard's, ACE, etc. all have crappy big box Delta and Moen which does not compare to what you get at a supply house.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Moen Diverter with Posi Temp Cartridge

                            Back on topic, my money is on the hand shower creating a siphon. I've had similar service calls on every make model and shape valve from Moen to Grohe, to Kohler to Danze etc and they all usually come down to the hand shower.

                            The bucket test that Rick mentioned is what I usually do too.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Moen Diverter with Posi Temp Cartridge

                              I am going to have the homeowner try that. The hand held the home owner purchased. It's kind of odd that I have never seen a handheld look like a drip and back siphon out of the tub spout. If this is the case not knowing yet , then it would have to be some sort of defect or problem with the hand held. My suppy house gave me a name and number of the Moen rep today. I will keep u guys posted. Thanks for your help.
                              The Plumber/Firefighter

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