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Flowgaurd Gold CPVC

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  • #31
    Re: Flowgaurd Gold CPVC

    "CTS CPVC pipe can be used with standard brass ferrules to make compression connections where the operating temperature will not exceed 140°F. "


    The 140 degrees is a little scary too isn't it? I know a lot of people that turn up their water heaters pretty high. Hmmm

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    • #32
      Re: Flowgaurd Gold CPVC

      I agree..
      ''Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" Benjamin Franklin

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      • #33
        Re: Flowgaurd Gold CPVC

        Here are somethings to look at :
        1) Did the same person install the stops?
        2) Was the ferrule properly installed?
        3) Were the stops made in China?
        4) Was Chinese drywall used?
        5) Did someone replace the WC or fill vavle since you installed the stop?
        6) Where does the supply enter the room? The wall or floor?
        7) What is the length of the pipe from the finished surface to the stop?
        8) Is there a pipe hammering problem?
        9) Was the supply properly anchored?
        10) Did you install a chrome beauty sleeve?
        11) Did it start to drip & someone (HO or your employee) tighten it more to stop the drip ?
        Sounds like you employees installed the stops, so you can't be 100% sure they were properly installed. I had a helper removing a WC on a total gut & instead of removing the supply line he took the stop apart. Followed by him screaming turn the water off

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        • #34
          Re: Flowgaurd Gold CPVC

          In the last 40-years I have over-torqued more than one item. My first gas system I split a 2" elbow. I have over-torqued closet bolts, plastic screw fittings, basket strainers and hoodie rim clips. I have seen damages from all of the above plus from over-torqued ballcock nuts, washers, stems, copper stops, gas flex connector adapters, cleanout plugs, brass valves and so on and so on. I don't recall any of those items having torque limitations included in the package.

          Much of what we do is based on a "learned" feel of what is the proper torque. It is not something that can be designed into a material. We learn that a steel pipe will always handle more than a plastic pipe. One of the trade offs for using plastic is you have to accept the fact it is more susceptible to things like chemicals, UV rays, mechanical damages and torque.

          If the material is in fact defective that is whole different story and should be investigated. There are failure analysis experts out there who should be able to show the mechanisms of failure.

          Mark
          Last edited by ToUtahNow; 04-29-2011, 08:12 PM.
          "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

          I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

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          • #35
            Re: Flowgaurd Gold CPVC

            That's what I'm saying...................... I have paid 60,000.00 to a testing company. (Yea I know, 60,000.00!!!!! Unbelievable right) I will prove this is a manufacturers problem even if I spend more than I've lost! Anyway guys, I appreciate all the advice and attempts to help figure this thing out however as I do know there is no way any of us can know it all, it's not my first rodeo either. You all have asked important and good questions but I'm beyond that stage. I'm simply looking for a yes or no answer to the question, has anyone experienced the same or a similar problem?

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            • #36
              Re: Flowgaurd Gold CPVC

              Originally posted by nwpent View Post
              That's what I'm saying...................... I have paid 60,000.00 to a testing company. (Yea I know, 60,000.00!!!!! Unbelievable right) I will prove this is a manufacturers problem even if I spend more than I've lost! Anyway guys, I appreciate all the advice and attempts to help figure this thing out however as I do know there is no way any of us can know it all, it's not my first rodeo either. You all have asked important and good questions but I'm beyond that stage. I'm simply looking for a yes or no answer to the question, has anyone experienced the same or a similar problem?

              My answer would be no, never. For the simple reason of I would never and have never installed a compression angle stop on cpvc.

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              • #37
                Re: Flowgaurd Gold CPVC

                I think it's BS and they shouldn't specify an installation method without a precise method such as torque wrench of some type unless there is such a WIDE tolerance and longterm tests to prove a person basically won't "overtighten" a compression fitting on their product.

                I don't care who you are on here. At some point you have had a dripper and tightened it more. Well guess what, if it goes for any reason, it's going to the laboratory and you "overtightened" it. Plastic toilet valve shanks and nuts popping here and there. Always will be considered your fault.

                nwpent, I'm sorry but they are going to blame you no matter what. Don't know what you can and can't do. Maybe talk to some lawyers. I want to tell you to go in all of the homes you've installed these in the last 10 years and offer solvent weld (glue) replacements. But that may be perceived as an admission of guilt.

                The "Disaster Vultures" will circle and show you bills you won't believe for this as well.

                So sorry man. Hope you can work it out for the best.


                J.c.

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                • #38
                  Re: Flowgaurd Gold CPVC

                  On the jobs that had pipe failures.....what time of year did the jobs get completed? Was it cold?

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                  • #39
                    Re: Flowgaurd Gold CPVC

                    The common denominators are CPVC, compression stops, failures happening around the 4-5 year time frame after installation and chlorine in municipal water. The time of year regarding installation and failure are all over the board. I do work in 5 states of the southeast and they fail in all states I work in. It's a real problem for sure

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                    • #40
                      Re: Flowgaurd Gold CPVC

                      I have and will never use these type of valves just for that reason. No valve lasts forever. I was under the impression that if you use a compression valve on CPVC you had to use a nylon ferrel but plumbers just assumed it was ok. Well I am wrong about the nylon ferrules as I saw from a previous post. What I am reading is Teflon with brass ferrules is ok. I do a lot of work on well water and the common denominator missing is chlorine. You might want to find a plumber who uses them regularly on well water to see if he has had similar problems. The water is much different. I am no expert on this by any means and my heart goes out to you.

                      I also know this. I regularly used the glue/ CPVC valves and have had them go bad because of the well water. When I replace them or on new installs I now use a shark bite type of valve that you can remove. I do this because I do not trust holding the glue part of the valve and screwing a new body on. If you don't hold that perfect
                      Y still I believe you can crack the weld joint and I am very anal with everything I do or at least try to be. The other problem is if I totally cut out valve and replace, the next time it goes bad , and it will on well water there will be no more CPVC left to replace the valve. I know have gone to the shark bite type chrome valves so I can pop them right off the CPVC and replace a million times.
                      The Plumber/Firefighter

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