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  • Flowgaurd Gold CPVC

    I'm looking for other plumbers that have experienced problems with CPVC piping when a compression type fixture stop is installed on the pipe. I have letters and documentation from the stop manufacturer that states their stops can be used on CPVC and they recognize this practice as industry standard in some areas of the country. Lubrizol (Flowgaurd Gold) also has public documentation that recognizes these types of connections as acceptable.

    I am experiencing failures at toilets, lavatories, kitchen sinks, etc. on the hot and cold side of the system where a fixture stop just breaks off obviously flooding the home. I have had several of these tested by a chemist to try and figure out what the issue is. The test results where somewhat inconclusive due to lubrizol's resin "recipe" not being public knowledge so the chemist had nothing to compare the ingredients to.

    Anyway, the failures I'm seeing are around 4-5 years after installation which is whithin the 8 year state statute that covers a homeowner against poor workmanship. I'm being sued on a regular basis for poor workmanship and I am convinced something is wrong with the pipe. I'm hoping I can find a few more companies that have experienced the same issue so we can get Lubrizol to discuss this.

  • #2
    Re: Flowgaurd Gold CPVC

    Could you be a little more precise about the "compression type fixture stop"?
    Are you installing regular angle stops with a nut and ferrule on cpvc? Or are you talking about the push on shark bite types?

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Flowgaurd Gold CPVC

      Glue on a threaded adapter first, cheap and it works.

      8 yr statute? Must be something through the builder cause I've never seen a trade in these mass built homes come back and fix something even in the first year.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Flowgaurd Gold CPVC

        It sounds like a Chemist was the wrong place to start with. What you needed was a Metallurgist who specializes in failure analysis first. He could have used a scanning electron microscope and told you what elements and in what percentage were present. Then if you believe it is a chemistry problem you already have the info.

        Mark
        "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

        I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Flowgaurd Gold CPVC

          We install more Flowguard Gold CPVC than anything else.
          Copper used to be king, now it's not even specified
          for residential and light commercial.
          We commonly use regular compression stops and wrap the
          ferrule with a few laps of teflon tape to keep it centered
          and have had zero problems. Avoid over tightening.
          Also have used glue-on stops, which are more costly but
          easier to install. There's a long list of incompatible products
          that can't be used on FG Gold CPVC. Everything from certain pipe
          dopes to pesticides.
          Last edited by Big Jim; 04-27-2011, 04:42 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Flowgaurd Gold CPVC

            Originally posted by Big Jim View Post
            We install more Flowguard Gold CPVC than anything else.
            Copper used to be king, now it's not even specified
            for residential and light commercial.
            We commonly use regular compression stops and wrap the
            ferrule with a few laps of teflon tape to keep it centered
            and have had zero problems. Avoid over tightening.
            Also have used glue-on stops, which are more costly but
            easier to install. There's a long list of incompatible products
            that can't be used on FG Gold CPVC. Everything from certain pipe
            dopes to pesticides.

            I have installed thousands of compression stops with cpvc..I don't anymore.In my opinion the ferrules are cutting into the cpvc..Use the glue on valves.I have come back on them , like you say years later and found leaks at all the fixtures, rust all over the escucheons, etc.. Or like mentioned above an adapter that will work for the compression valve..Or maybe they should make a cpvc ferrule like they did for the old poly supply tubes
            ''Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" Benjamin Franklin

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Flowgaurd Gold CPVC

              Originally posted by Big Jim View Post
              We install more Flowguard Gold CPVC than anything else.
              Copper used to be king, now it's not even specified
              for residential and light commercial.
              We commonly use regular compression stops and wrap the
              ferrule with a few laps of teflon tape to keep it centered
              and have had zero problems. Avoid over tightening.
              Also have used glue-on stops, which are more costly but
              easier to install. There's a long list of incompatible products
              that can't be used on FG Gold CPVC. Everything from certain pipe
              dopes to pesticides.
              Same thing here...re piped with Flowguard Gold CPVC no problems...wrapped telfon like Jim said and not overtighten....Makes you wonder what pesticides are doing around your plumbing....
              Poor Planning On Your Part Does Not Constitute An Emergency On My Part!!
              You can fire me...but you can't tell me what to do!

              Derek

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Flowgaurd Gold CPVC

                I get a little worried every time i have to touch a plastic water pipe in side a house
                All my hair would be gray if i had to see it every day

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Flowgaurd Gold CPVC

                  Without exception, every problem I have seen in CPVC has been related to installation or mechanical issues. That said we have very little CPVC out here.

                  Mark
                  "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                  I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Flowgaurd Gold CPVC

                    We had some Flowgaurd piping failures a few years back,Charlotte checked them for the shop and the findings were that a unidentifiable foreign substance on the joint caused the failure.They left it at that"not a manufacturer/installation problem".....................
                    Steve in the trade since 73 doing new residential/Commercial work

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Flowgaurd Gold CPVC

                      I don't know why anyone is surprised of these failures. A "hack" saw and a can of glue and you're a plumber.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Flowgaurd Gold CPVC

                        Not sure about that..Cpvc has been around long enough to prove itself to me ..Iguess you are a "hack" if you install anything but copper ..What are your feelings about Pex
                        ''Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" Benjamin Franklin

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Flowgaurd Gold CPVC

                          Originally posted by dcman View Post
                          Makes you wonder what pesticides are doing around your plumbing....
                          I believe the main concern is with termite treatment of the slab
                          if you're ground roughing with CPVC.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Flowgaurd Gold CPVC

                            Originally posted by Big Jim View Post
                            I believe the main concern is with termite treatment of the slab
                            if you're ground roughing with CPVC.
                            Oh...interesting...glad I was re piping and not new installs....
                            Poor Planning On Your Part Does Not Constitute An Emergency On My Part!!
                            You can fire me...but you can't tell me what to do!

                            Derek

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Flowgaurd Gold CPVC

                              Originally posted by nwpent View Post
                              I'm looking for other plumbers that have experienced problems with CPVC piping when a compression type fixture stop is installed on the pipe. I have letters and documentation from the stop manufacturer that states their stops can be used on CPVC and they recognize this practice as industry standard in some areas of the country. Lubrizol (Flowgaurd Gold) also has public documentation that recognizes these types of connections as acceptable.

                              I am experiencing failures at toilets, lavatories, kitchen sinks, etc. on the hot and cold side of the system where a fixture stop just breaks off obviously flooding the home. I have had several of these tested by a chemist to try and figure out what the issue is. The test results where somewhat inconclusive due to lubrizol's resin "recipe" not being public knowledge so the chemist had nothing to compare the ingredients to.

                              Anyway, the failures I'm seeing are around 4-5 years after installation which is whithin the 8 year state statute that covers a homeowner against poor workmanship. I'm being sued on a regular basis for poor workmanship and I am convinced something is wrong with the pipe. I'm hoping I can find a few more companies that have experienced the same issue so we can get Lubrizol to discuss this.
                              You need to post some pictures of these failures. The stop used and the break point. More than one if you can.

                              Might help.

                              P.S. The pipe company AND the stop company will do everything they can to declare it "poor workmanship". They'll look for a microdot of an unapproved pipe dope that was on your glove. Blame you for everything.

                              Sorry you're having to go through this.


                              J.C.

                              Comment

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