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  • #16
    Re: Tee and em

    Oh man let's not get off into propress again...

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    • #17
      Re: Tee and em

      I choose my battles, some jobs I know T&M will be best, others I know a flat rate will prevail. I bid them accordingly.

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      • #18
        Re: Tee and em

        Great thread. I love reading how everyone runs there own businesses.
        My company is uniquely different then most of the people that post here because we do 99% commercial/industrial plumbing and water treatment. (The majority being water treatment)
        One thing for sure, and I learned this a long time ago is how to cost out my trucks, with employees, based on every single factor that effects my company. Insurance, fuel, depreciation, tools, inventory, phones, electrical, gas, water, licensing, permitting, waste hauling, paper, toner,....... you name it we factor it in to the overall operation of the company. In other words we have it down to almost a Science as to how much a truck needs to generate on a daily basis to break even.
        We have a small percentage of residential customers that we service R.O.’s for on an annual basis. That is a flat rate. I raised that rate this year by $20.00 after nine years of charging the same price. Because we do only a hundred or so of these a year, we allowed our margins to be eaten up because it actually generated additional business in plumbing etc... However this year the point of diminishing return was met and I had to raise the pricing.
        We T&M all service repair work when it comes to Water Treatment. If a customer wants an estimate we charge T&M for the estimate, and then remove that cost if they go with us on the repair. Same thing with Plumbing. The old saying that "time is money", holds very true in my business model.
        We charge flat rate on new construction projects, new equipment, design engineering etc... (We do have provisions in our contracts for change orders)
        In the end both models work for us, and each has its limitations. As others have posted you have to do what works for your business.

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        • #19
          Re: Tee and em

          Fair to the customer? What in hell is fair to the customer? Who gives a crap what is fair to the customer. You need to cover your expenses and make a profit. If that figure is more than the customer is willing to pay (or you fail to deliver excellent service and products) they will go somewhere else. This notion of what's fair to the customer is a load of crap. Charge as much as you possibly can. Take it right to the limit. You want friends, buy a round of drinks. You want to stay in business, KNOW YOUR BOTTOM LINE

          You wanna know how we've been in business for over 60 years? It's because all those other guys that were worried about being fair to the customer are now working at the Wal-Mart

          Take no prisoners
          Last edited by NHMaster3015; 08-17-2011, 11:28 PM.
          sigpic

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          • #20
            Re: Tee and em

            Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
            Fair to the customer? What in hell is fair to the customer? Who gives a crap what is fair to the customer. You need to cover your expenses and make a profit. If that figure is more than the customer is willing to pay (or you fail to deliver excellent service and products) they will go somewhere else. This notion of what's fair to the customer is a load of crap. Charge as much as you possibly can. Take it right to the limit. You want friends, buy a round of drinks. You want to stay in business, KNOW YOUR BOTTOM LINE

            You wanna know how we've been in business for over 60 years? It's because all those other guys that were worried about being fair to the customer are now working at the Wal-Mart

            Take no prisoners
            Bingo NH running your own business is about making a PROFIT and to hell with the client I`ll refrase that to hell with 80% of your clients as there are just 20% who treat you as though you know your business and trust you to do a good job without quotes or estimates.
            Don`t have any regrets about the rest as they couldn`t give a stuff about you and your living expenses and if I sound hard thats what 39 years working for one self does to you but at least I own a nice house and have a warm bed at night and laugh all the way to the bank.

            PS
            I am a T&M plumber

            Tony

            Tony

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            • #21
              Re: Tee and em

              I personally like to help the customer. I don't believe it's the fault of the customer to pay a high rate to cover a overhead that is out of control because a owner made bad business choices(like paying way too much advertising, brand new vehicles, too many employees, large office building etc). I get almost ALL my work from referrals. So I either know my customer or know who refereed them. They don't ask price because whoever refereed them said I do good work and I'm reasonable. I keep my over head down by making smart business choices. It takes awhile to run a successful business, it's a slow process. Do good work, treat yous customers good and you can and will make it in this business. I treat every customer good and with respect. Maybe it's because I call to a higher power. I do everything to the best of my ability, and lets the cards play out for them selves. Seems to be working for me.
              Will Rogers Plumbing
              Moore, Oklahoma
              (
              405) 323-2852

              "Your Solution for Any Sewer and Drain Cleaning Needs"

              "We Unclog Drains That Others Can't"



              www.willrogersplumbing.com
              http://willrogersplumbing.com/?page_id=8

              "Oklahoma's Favorite Plumbers!"

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              • #22
                Re: Tee and em

                Here is the one phrase that I believe defines a succesful business model. It's the phrase I use every single time someone says to me our pricing is higher then our competitors.

                "Last time I checked my business cards, and letter head the words, "Non-Profit Orginization" was not present"

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                • #23
                  Re: Tee and em

                  Originally posted by Watersurgeon View Post
                  Here is the one phrase that I believe defines a succesful business model. It's the phrase I use every single time someone says to me our pricing is higher then our competitors.

                  "Last time I checked my business cards, and letter head the words, "Non-Profit Orginization" was not present"
                  you tell your customers this?


                  Honestly guys all this tough talk about not giving a **** about your customers is just that. Talk. Because you have the LUXURY.

                  If suddenly all your customers stopped calling, you'd not be that way. But you have that luxury. Don't forget who pays your bills. And that is your customers. As Will said, it's not their fault their water heater went bad or whatever, or sometimes it is their fault. But it's not their fault you have high overhead or run a business, or clear 87% profit.
                  They put YOU to work, they could call someone else. And don't give me the "I'm the best plumber in town crap" because there are plenty of good plumbers in your town that you don't know. You aren't gods gift to plumbing, and you aren't their only option, so at least give your customers a face shield when you spit in their face.

                  I realize some towns are the exception to the rule, but little one plumber towns probably don't get internet!

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                  • #24
                    Re: Tee and em

                    Originally posted by stolen View Post
                    you tell your customers this?


                    Honestly guys all this tough talk about not giving a **** about your customers is just that. Talk. Because you have the LUXURY.

                    If suddenly all your customers stopped calling, you'd not be that way. But you have that luxury. Don't forget who pays your bills. And that is your customers. As Will said, it's not their fault their water heater went bad or whatever, or sometimes it is their fault. But it's not their fault you have high overhead or run a business, or clear 87% profit.
                    They put YOU to work, they could call someone else. And don't give me the "I'm the best plumber in town crap" because there are plenty of good plumbers in your town that you don't know. You aren't gods gift to plumbing, and you aren't their only option, so at least give your customers a face shield when you spit in their face.

                    I realize some towns are the exception to the rule, but little one plumber towns probably don't get internet!
                    Yes, so lower your prices to reflect what everyone else in ther area is getting and then wait and wait and wait because though it is a slow death, it is death none the less.
                    sigpic

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                    • #25
                      Re: Tee and em

                      I'll chime in. When plumber A doesn't answer his phone who gets the job, plumber B. When plumber A is on vacation who gets the job, plumber B. When plumber A has too many beers to run a service call who gets the job, plumber B. Plumber B is always there, plumber A is not.
                      When the customer calls with an emergency and plumber A can't get there because he's booked for the day who gets the job? Plumber B does.

                      So really if plumber A is happy with his small share then what's the problem? No problem, plumber B gets the job.

                      What I've found over the years it's not about the price, it's about who can get there right now. Most of the time that would be plumber B.

                      Just my opinion.

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                      • #26
                        Re: Tee and em

                        Originally posted by TheMaster
                        All things equal, price WILL change the equation and the customer will go with the cheaper price and same service. Some people will say to themselves......"times are tough,turn that hall bath toilet off until plumber A gets back in town and save 75.00" And if they dont next time they still will try plumber A before they call plumber B.

                        No company can respond to every call they get. PlumberA and plumberB have the same service. Nothing different other than how they spend money.
                        I agree with that for the most part. I guess it all depends on your own individual area. Up here sometimes it's hard to get a plumber and people will pay more to get service sooner than later. Most times here customers are just lucky to even get a plumber to come out the same day. One thing I have noticed is that prices are cheaper in bigger population areas because there is more competition.

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                        • #27
                          Re: Tee and em

                          Originally posted by TheMaster
                          We can sling this to extremes but we all know in the end if the majority of your customers are not happy with the price and or your service they will look elsewhere next time and thats also a slow death.

                          Its called being competitive with your pricing. If I go to a burger joint and get a 12.00 burger and it tastes like McDonalds I can assure you I will never go back and the same with any other service. if Plumber B costs 200.00 to rebuild a toilet and plumber A charges 125.00 and I like both of them and both did a fine job......guess which one I would always be my second choice. Keep in mind that both companies did a great job.

                          Plumber A is making no more at the end of the day than plumber B. Wow how can that be so...plumber B charges 200.00 while Plumber B charges 125.00 . Well let me explain it to you.

                          Plumber B drives a 12 yr old van,has a home office,doesn't have a full page ad in the phonebook,doesn't buy tools that are not needed,doesn't have a 250.00 cellphone and some outrageous bill every month ETC ETC.

                          Plumber A: he took loans out to buy his shop and his vans. He replaces vans and gets them all wrapped up every few years,He buys a tool just to say he has it,he buys the latest and greatest cell phone,He signs up to PSI to learn how to run a business and pay their fees,he may have bought a franchise ETC ETC.

                          Its not how much you make its ALL about how much you get to keep.

                          The numbers I threw up were just numbers.....not meant to reflect anyones prices but rather just showing how a guy charging more can actually be keeping less
                          That pretty much sums it up. As long as you spend less than you make, you are doing what needs to be done. The Plumber who watches his spending will make more in the long run(most of the time). Living with in your means does not just apply to day to day living. It goes for business too.
                          Will Rogers Plumbing
                          Moore, Oklahoma
                          (
                          405) 323-2852

                          "Your Solution for Any Sewer and Drain Cleaning Needs"

                          "We Unclog Drains That Others Can't"



                          www.willrogersplumbing.com
                          http://willrogersplumbing.com/?page_id=8

                          "Oklahoma's Favorite Plumbers!"

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Tee and em

                            Thriving businesses are built on reputations not prices.
                            sigpic

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                            • #29
                              Re: Tee and em

                              Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                              Thriving businesses are built on reputations not prices.
                              Like McDonalds and Walmart?

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                              • #30
                                Re: Tee and em

                                When you go to McDonalds, what do you get for your money? We can argue all day over the taste but rememer that both McDonalds and Wal-Mart provide a product that meets the average customers expectations and they do so consistantly. Neither are particularly low priced.
                                sigpic

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