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  • #46
    Re: Tee and em

    Well and I think being in business is always a juggling act and requires people of great integrity to be sucessfull over the long haul. Look at Bernie Madoff. A guy that everyone thought was a Prince of a guy. He made a pile for awhile and now he sit's on the bricks.
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    • #47
      Re: Tee and em

      Bernie was just as honest as the IRS is. But they do it to your face, and force you to pay.

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      • #48
        Re: Tee and em

        Says you run NASA, how's that working out for ya?
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        • #49
          Re: Tee and em

          Good. Right now we are researching a mission to pull Obamas head from his ***.

          Having trouble though, apparently it is so far up there that he can read his own mind.

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          • #50
            Re: Tee and em

            Love you man
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            • #51
              Re: Tee and em

              Frank Blau is the Godfather of flat rate plumbing. If anyone gets the chance go back and read his original articles, do it. They go back to before some of you were even born. I guess it takes longer for some to "get it", then again some may never "get it" and die poor with nothing. But hey, at least you treated the customer fair, as if they customer ever gave a chit about YOU. Wake up people, we're all in this together. Start taking a little pride in your trade.

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              • #52
                Re: Tee and em

                Well part of the reason we are all working longer and getting paid less is because we have devalued the trade over the past 40 years or so. Some of it is due to the change in materials and methods and some is due to the ease in procuring a licence. Every year it gets harder to get an electricians licence and every year it gets easier to get a plumbing licence. In my state it is possible for a 20 year old kid to hold a Masters. How does that happen? 20 years with a masters. Even if the kid is brilliand and highly skilled at 20 there is no way he has the experience to hold a Masters and yet, he can.
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                • #53
                  Re: Tee and em

                  Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                  Well part of the reason we are all working longer and getting paid less is because we have devalued the trade over the past 40 years or so. Some of it is due to the change in materials and methods and some is due to the ease in procuring a licence. Every year it gets harder to get an electricians licence and every year it gets easier to get a plumbing licence. In my state it is possible for a 20 year old kid to hold a Masters. How does that happen? 20 years with a masters. Even if the kid is brilliand and highly skilled at 20 there is no way he has the experience to hold a Masters and yet, he can.
                  That's too bad. Minnesota still makes you document all your hours as an apprentice before you can take your journeyman's test. Then so many hours to take the Masters test. I know one guy around here that has been a journeyman for over 10 years and has taken his Masters test three times and failed it each time. The test is not easy and most if not all would not pass it without formal extensive training.

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                  • #54
                    Re: Tee and em

                    We still need 4 years apprentice training, 300 class room and 2000 OJT hours but the exams are open book and a 17 year old kid can be a 1st year apprentice here. That and the IPC which pretty much makes any handyman or homeowner a plumber and you have a recipe for disaster.
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                    • #55
                      Re: Tee and em

                      Originally posted by ironranger View Post
                      Frank Blau is the Godfather of flat rate plumbing. If anyone gets the chance go back and read his original articles, do it. They go back to before some of you were even born. I guess it takes longer for some to "get it", then again some may never "get it" and die poor with nothing. But hey, at least you treated the customer fair, as if they customer ever gave a chit about YOU. Wake up people, we're all in this together. Start taking a little pride in your trade.
                      This is a problem with alot of Flat Raters. They THINK they are making a killing and all T&M shops are just scraping by. How do you figure that? I assure you I'm not working for peanuts. I'm not going to base my business structure off a savoy business guy that can't do Plumbing. We're not trading stocks here, we're fixing pipes. We're Plumbers. We fix peoples Plumbing and we get paid. It's not rocket science.
                      Will Rogers Plumbing
                      Moore, Oklahoma
                      (
                      405) 323-2852

                      "Your Solution for Any Sewer and Drain Cleaning Needs"

                      "We Unclog Drains That Others Can't"



                      www.willrogersplumbing.com
                      http://willrogersplumbing.com/?page_id=8

                      "Oklahoma's Favorite Plumbers!"

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                      • #56
                        Re: Tee and em

                        Not a plumber? Most flat rate plumbers don't go flat rate to "make a killing". How do most t&m plumbers come up with their price? I think we all know the answer to that, they check their competition. Flat rate plumbers rates are based on actual business costs etc. That's the difference. I can tell you this, charging flat rate has never hurt my business at all. In fact it's increased my profits tremendously. We can argue this until the cows come home but it won't make a difference. I've done both, I know which way works better. Unless of course you're in this business just to get buy or for charity more power to ya.



                        The Service Roundtable’s Hall of Leaders - Frank Blau
                        Last edited by ironranger; 08-20-2011, 10:28 AM.

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                        • #57
                          Re: Tee and em

                          Originally posted by ironranger View Post
                          Not a plumber? Most flat rate plumbers don't go flat rate to "make a killing". How do most t&m plumbers come up with their price? I think we all know the answer to that, they check their competition. Flat rate plumbers rates are based on actual business costs etc. That's the difference. I can tell you this, charging flat rate has never hurt my business at all. In fact it's increased my profits tremendously. We can argue this until the cows come home but it won't make a difference. I've done both, I know which way works better. Unless of course you're in this business just to get buy or for charity more power to ya.



                          The Service Roundtable’s Hall of Leaders - Frank Blau
                          I don't base my hourly rate of the competition. I could care less what they charge. That is a vague statement to say that T&M base there price of the competition. The same could be said that most Flat Raters get there prices by ordering a Flat Rate pricebook and software. If you want to pay someone thousands to tell you what most Plumbers know(what stuff cost) then be my guess.
                          Will Rogers Plumbing
                          Moore, Oklahoma
                          (
                          405) 323-2852

                          "Your Solution for Any Sewer and Drain Cleaning Needs"

                          "We Unclog Drains That Others Can't"



                          www.willrogersplumbing.com
                          http://willrogersplumbing.com/?page_id=8

                          "Oklahoma's Favorite Plumbers!"

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                          • #58
                            Re: Tee and em

                            Originally posted by ironranger View Post
                            Not a plumber? Most flat rate plumbers don't go flat rate to "make a killing". How do most t&m plumbers come up with their price? I think we all know the answer to that, they check their competition. Flat rate plumbers rates are based on actual business costs etc. That's the difference. I can tell you this, charging flat rate has never hurt my business at all. In fact it's increased my profits tremendously. We can argue this until the cows come home but it won't make a difference. I've done both, I know which way works better. Unless of course you're in this business just to get buy or for charity more power to ya.



                            The Service Roundtable’s Hall of Leaders - Frank Blau
                            I actually don't think any reputable company that actually gives a ****, bases their price off their competition. Roto rooter might, but ya lol at those guys.

                            I can safely go out on a limb and say a mojority of the shops, t&m or FR base their prices off their bottom line. Figure in a % of profit, and bam that is their recipe to their profitable billable hour.

                            Because as stated earlier, no one runs a business for any other reason than to make a profit. And running with that mindset, first you HAVE to pay your bills, then you can start making profit. So basing your prices, off another shops, would be suicide. Unless of course they are much higher then you are after profit.

                            And I have found it quite the opposite, among most shops I have worked at, the FR was usually much more crooked. Worked for one that was a big company, that the shop manager didn't know the first thing about plumbing. Except that when he farted, it smelled like money.


                            And you say you have done both, and you know which works better. So if one is soo much better than the other, why isn't everyone flat rating? And are you seriously going to tell me I can or can't make as much or more or do better or worse on one system than the other? Assuming I am honest, and do good work there is no bad way to bill out.

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                            • #59
                              Re: Tee and em

                              Will, I'm gonna guess that you are a plumber and a damn good one at that. I'm also gonna guess that you have been doing things like you have always done them since you started. I'm also gonna guess that you are a pretty smart guy but never took any business courses. The fact is that most of us are plumbers first and then we just kind of fall into the business end of things and hope for the best. I'll lay a truth on you and no doubt you won't believe it but here goes. As a one man shop there is a finite maximum growth potential because there are only so many hours in a day and no one person can do the work. do the books. do the marketing and make everyone happy. You can make a living, but you will never be rich. How a one man shop charges it's customers is of no real argument. If it works then it works. However, if you really want to start growing the business you need to take some business courses and then stop doing the plumbing work yourself. Or hire someone to run the business.
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                              • #60
                                Re: Tee and em

                                NHMaster,

                                I respect you and I know better than to ever argue or challenge you. You are correct in saying a one man shop will never make it super rich Plumbing alone. But I make money in more than one way. I have a home I owner finance, I have a rent home, I have no debt, and I spend less than I make. I do well for my self and I enjoy what I do. I also have other stuff in my life that is more important than my business(family). I never started Plumbing to make it rich. I believe one day I will be there, but it's not because of how I charge. It's because I love what I do and I'm good at it.
                                Will Rogers Plumbing
                                Moore, Oklahoma
                                (
                                405) 323-2852

                                "Your Solution for Any Sewer and Drain Cleaning Needs"

                                "We Unclog Drains That Others Can't"



                                www.willrogersplumbing.com
                                http://willrogersplumbing.com/?page_id=8

                                "Oklahoma's Favorite Plumbers!"

                                Comment

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