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  • #16
    Re: "I'm not paying this...'

    That sounds like a very frustrating experience, but I also think you are doing the right thing by lowering the bill.

    Just curious, but you said you were using the blue glue. Were you also using primer?

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    • #17
      Re: "I'm not paying this...'

      After re-reading the original post when I got home, I would have to agree on a few things here.

      1. We as tradesmen know how long it takes glue to dry, so that falls on us right there. I didn't realize this was a "non potable" line until I re-read the original post again. If it was a potable line, I would of told the guy he would of been without water for 24 hours until the glue dried.

      2. I get tunnel vision just like the rest of you do, and I think more investigating should of been done on this problem.

      Over the years I had a few "stupid attacks" and over thought things, and had to eat labor because it was my fault.

      You should prepare yourself for some damage control, cause this guy is going to slander you over this, cause he's going to think you're a crook going from $4,000.00 down to $450.00. I know it sucks and it's a tough situation, but you will learn from this and be better for it in the long run.

      Not to hijack the thread, but this is what I had to deal with this morning while reading this thread.....massive flooding again! Was calling around this morning for pumps, cause my last 2 were spoken for. (this is where I live at the moment)
      Attached Files

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      • #18
        Re: "I'm not paying this...'

        5 hours ($450) + parts sounds fair. Now we'll see what kind of person this guy really is, depending on if he pays or still complains.

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        • #19
          Re: "I'm not paying this...'

          Wow, I learned a lot from this post! Thanks ray, Rick Utah,and all. Never ,too old to back up an learn! Tool
          I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

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          • #20
            Re: "I'm not paying this...'

            "Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results."
            Albert Einstein
            I'm not pointing the finger. To be candid, I had a similar experience today, while trying to make something work that no matter how many attempts I made failure was preordained. Thank goodness my brother stepped in and suggested a brilliant, seemingly obvious (once he suggested it) solution, garnered from his previous experience with a very similar situation.

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            • #21
              Re: "I'm not paying this...'

              I wish we had thread of the week nominations again...... *Cough Josh Cough* I would hit the nominate button for this thread.

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              • #22
                Re: "I'm not paying this...'

                Damm glue! I hate the 24hr thing when the 6 kids look at you with those big eyes like street orphans, "why do we have to wait soooooo long"
                Seattle Drain Service

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                • #23
                  Re: "I'm not paying this...'

                  Originally posted by Flux View Post

                  Not to hijack the thread, but this is what I had to deal with this morning while reading this thread.....massive flooding again! Was calling around this morning for pumps, cause my last 2 were spoken for. (this is where I live at the moment)

                  You don't need a pump. You need a boat!

                  I happen to have one for sale.
                  Time flies like an arrow.

                  Fruit flies like a banana.

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                  • #24
                    Re: "I'm not paying this...'

                    Originally posted by mpm View Post
                    Thanks everyone! I am going to reduce the labor to a total of 5 hours or 450.00. I think this would be fair for the initial repair and the repair with copper & brass with fittings per his request. I am glad I posted this great advice everyone.
                    Ray, I would show the customer the salient parts of this thread and explain how you came to your decision. You might be able to save the relationship. If the customer can be made to understand you were operating in good faith you have a reasonable chance imo.

                    BTW: Hope this doesn't sound smarmy but I'm proud of you that you made the right decision to alter your invoice. We all have jobs like that.
                    Time flies like an arrow.

                    Fruit flies like a banana.

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                    • #25
                      Re: "I'm not paying this...'

                      Well I emailed him the revised invoice and an apology. So we'll see what he says... I'll call him tomorrow to check.
                      My plumber Dave was not so happy with the Dr. and was all fired up and ready to go rip out the work (plus some other things I wont mention). He felt like he had been played since the Dr. was hanging out with him the whole time and saying over and over that he did not care how much it cost he just wanted it fixed and how he had no water. He felt foolish for working late instead of going home to take care of his family. I felt worse for him than I did for me. I really lucked out with this guy, he's a really good person (and plumber) through and through and I hate seeing good people feel like they got played like that.
                      All in all after being stressed and mad as hell I feel like this was a great learning experience. I am so glad I have this forum so I can ask advice from my peers, it really helps. I really do appreciate all the comments. Also Rick pulled a solid and called me this morning just to check up on me, that was huge. Thanks Guys!
                      Ray

                      “Wealth is the product of man's capacity to think.”— Francisco d'Anconia
                      Atlas Shrugged (Part 2, Chapter 2, Page 411)

                      www.mauiplumbinginc.com

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                      • #26
                        Re: "I'm not paying this...'

                        ray great thread you started.

                        it was very interesting to see the split between the members who wanted to sue and the ones who wanted to adjust.

                        like i mentioned, i think giving the link to the dr. for him to read will show how much it concerned you to do the right thing. i think if the dr. reads this entire thread, only good will come out of it. pretty sure he will hire you in the future. dave might be a little slow to want to go back, but it would be great for you to go back for the fist return visit anyways.

                        anyways, i was glad to make the call, it's showing up at your doorstep that would have been the surprise



                        "kina ole" sure does come to mind.

                        rick.
                        phoebe it is

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                        • #27
                          Re: "I'm not paying this...'

                          Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                          it was very interesting to see the split between the members who wanted to sue and the ones who wanted to adjust. rick.
                          If a Doctor makes a mistake diagnosing a problem with me, something he should of known, does my insurance company have grounds to re-coup that money for wasted time that they paid?

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                          • #28
                            Re: "I'm not paying this...'

                            Originally posted by Flux View Post
                            If a Doctor makes a mistake diagnosing a problem with me, something he should of known, does my insurance company have grounds to re-coup that money for wasted time that they paid?
                            I'm guessing they would not have standing. You would sign your rights over to them and there would be a subjugation suit. It would have to me a major screw up for it to be worth it and you would have to prove negligence.

                            Mark
                            "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                            I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

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                            • #29
                              Re: "I'm not paying this...'

                              Just so you don't feel bad, this is what we had to do in the last couple of weeks with one customer.

                              Get called out to a commercial customer in South East San Diego County. Go out and the 15 year old twin softener system is in need of major repairs. We recommend complete rebuilds of the valves. Customer agrees. We pull the valves and take them back to our shop where we can bead blast them and do a thorough rebuild. Go back the following day and install them, dial everything in. Tell the customer that it will take up to one week for the units to sync with the meter. Leave, and bill them.

                              Three weeks after the initial service customer calls us says a brine line is leaking, and the water is spraying into an electrical wall outlet and tripping the system circuit breaker. We go out, repair the problem. bill them.

                              A week after that the customer calls says hey we have hard water again and I think the meter is not working properly. We go back down, put a meter monitor on and run a couple thousands gallons of water to drain, to test the meter. Yup, meter is not working properly. So we install a new meter, extended range. We also installed some new test ports on the 2" copper outlet lines. Before leaving we rechecked the meter by installing a meter monitor and running a couple hundred gallons of water. Everything A.O.K. we leave, but because we have been there so many times over the last four weeks, I reduce the billing, don't charge travel overtime etc... The customer is happy.

                              Then last week we get a call, again. They swear the meter is not working. So I jump in my truck drive the 2.5 hours down to the plant and take a look. Low and behold the Frigging $38.00, motor that drives the meter is intermittently working. In my thirty years of doing this business I have never seen one of these motors go bad. Look on my truck, I have no replacement motor. Check our other trucks, no replacement motors, check our office inventory, no replacement motors. So I drive from S. San Diego County to Los Angeles to pick up a couple of these motors and then turn around and go back. Total cost to the customer $38.00. Total cost to us, eight hours of drive time, $110.00 Fuel, one hour of labor.

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                              • #30
                                Re: "I'm not paying this...'

                                Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                                I'm guessing they would not have standing. You would sign your rights over to them and there would be a subjugation suit. It would have to me a major screw up for it to be worth it and you would have to prove negligence.

                                Mark
                                I've never had to sign my rights over for the family doctor. If one was presented to me, I would simply walk out the door and find another Doctor.

                                But If you're going to use that angle, should we Plumbers do the same thing, and have a customer sign away their rights when we walk through the door? We could easily kill a person or make them sick because of one of our screw-ups, and it's no different with Doctors.

                                I'm on the fence and can lean either way on this thread, because the Doctor called Ray to his home for HIS problem. The Doctor already said to Ray that the last time it was fixed, it cost $250.00, but yet this Doctor failed to inform Ray that it wasn't a potable water line. A customer knows their home better than any contractor that would walk through the door.

                                It's quite easy for any one of us to sit here and critique what happened here, but only Ray knows the conversations that have taken place over those 2 days, and none of us here knows what was said over those 2 days, and none of us seen the job. Put Ray's charge's aside for a second, Ray probably had to turn people away (loss of potential income) because he was there to fix a problem the Doctor was having. I don't even know Ray, and it's quite obvious from the way he described the situation, that he was not there to hang out and gouge the Doctor.

                                It doesn't matter what any excuse a customer could come up with, but not 1 Person here would tolerate a customer saying "I'm not paying for this", and a court of Law would back Ray up except for extreme price gouging. The price was already agreed upon before work was even started, and Ray's time is worth something, and if 1 or 2 mistakes were not made in this situation, Ray STILL would of been here telling us how this doctor refused to pay for this problem anyways.

                                If I was in this exact same situation as described, I would of adjusted my price at the end, because of what the end result was. But the Doctor doesn't get to pick and choose what he's going to pay, just because he doesn't like the final price. You or anyone else here wouldn't put up with that, and Ray has every right to take this guy to court if he wishes to do so. It's up to Ray if he wants to adjust his price or not...not the customer telling him what he's going to pay after the work has been completed, or a price that was agreed upon.
                                Last edited by Flux; 09-09-2011, 02:09 PM. Reason: grammar

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