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what the hell certification on water meters.......

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  • what the hell certification on water meters.......

    Iv mentioned a water meter and a nasty maintence man in a subdavision a few times now. Anyways proughed in a new house was told i must install water meter "pretty rare in these parts" got in argument about location of meter with maintence man "retired school principal" anyways after further investigation told him its not certified illegal. For me to install code states any plumbing part must be csa or uls or asmi certified its not. He phoned inspection agency they said install it i asked local inspector he said not to worry.. i still refused to install it today plumbing inspector says do not install it your right...not certified bought out of province. Phone local whole sale. Ask what brand meter is its csa or ulc representitive replies dont know never been asked that before.. he investigates by looking and asking boss no is the answer they give me manuufacturers number ask question after four representitives the answer is never been asked before. Finally they reply there. Is no certification for water meters... I reply then how are they be installed if it illegal for a cerified plumber to install them... I dont have an answer he replies you should phone csa.. i call csa same answer iv never been asked that before.. no marking at all he asks. I reply only nsf which states it meets drinking water requirements for lead content.... He puts me to his superior THEY MUST HAVE CSA OR ASNI he replies. Which manufactur has csa i ask.. he cant find one he trys asking several departments. Finally i ask if there is no requirements how do municipalitys know there acurate. What keeps china from bringing them to costco for twenty bucks? He replies let the head of plumbing certification call you back takes me number have yet to get a response.... How can they expect us to follow the obligtions of the code if something as dsimple as a water meter has "or appears " to have no certification" just busts my balls.

  • #2
    Re: what the hell certification on water meters.......

    Originally posted by seanny deep View Post
    Iv mentioned a water meter and a nasty maintence man in a subdavision a few times now. Anyways proughed in a new house was told i must install water meter "pretty rare in these parts" got in argument about location of meter with maintence man "retired school principal" anyways after further investigation told him its not certified illegal. For me to install code states any plumbing part must be csa or uls or asmi certified its not. He phoned inspection agency they said install it i asked local inspector he said not to worry.. i still refused to install it today plumbing inspector says do not install it your right...not certified bought out of province. Phone local whole sale. Ask what brand meter is its csa or ulc representitive replies dont know never been asked that before.. he investigates by looking and asking boss no is the answer they give me manuufacturers number ask question after four representitives the answer is never been asked before. Finally they reply there. Is no certification for water meters... I reply then how are they be installed if it illegal for a cerified plumber to install them... I dont have an answer he replies you should phone csa.. i call csa same answer iv never been asked that before.. no marking at all he asks. I reply only nsf which states it meets drinking water requirements for lead content.... He puts me to his superior THEY MUST HAVE CSA OR ASNI he replies. Which manufactur has csa i ask.. he cant find one he trys asking several departments. Finally i ask if there is no requirements how do municipalitys know there acurate. What keeps china from bringing them to costco for twenty bucks? He replies let the head of plumbing certification call you back takes me number have yet to get a response.... How can they expect us to follow the obligtions of the code if something as dsimple as a water meter has "or appears " to have no certification" just busts my balls.
    There is not a CSA or IAPMO listing as a water meter is not a plumbing fixture or fitting. Water meter are requires to comply with ANSI/NSF Standard 61. As for accuracy, they have to comply with AWWA Table 5.2. For the type of meter you likely have it would require +/- 1.5%.

    Mark
    "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

    I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: what the hell certification on water meters.......

      So it would till be required to have nsf and awwa stamps right? How is it not. A fitting? It's a part of a plumbing system when installed isn't it?

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      • #4
        Re: what the hell certification on water meters.......

        Originally posted by seanny deep View Post
        So it would till be required to have nsf and awwa stamps right? How is it not. A fitting? It's a part of a plumbing system when installed isn't it?
        It should be stamped NSF-61 but not AWWA. It is not a plumbing fitting because it is considered part of the distribution system not part of the plumbing system.

        Mark
        "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

        I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: what the hell certification on water meters.......

          So the "distribution system" is not part of the plumbing system? Seems odd to me. More like do what I say, not what I do.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: what the hell certification on water meters.......

            Chances are a utility company...gas, water, electric.....is NOT subject to local or state codes. They are an entity unto themselves!

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: what the hell certification on water meters.......

              Found this conversation interesting so I joined just to comment. Water meters are kinda controversial, but mostly in rural areas where they are quite new. City people have had them for decades, but even in some Canadian cities, they are just catching up.

              Measurement Canada (yeah, another government department), recommended in 2004 that all water meters must be type approved and that the AWWA (American Water Works Assn) standard is the one to be used.

              One of the other posts was correct – water meters are not considered plumbing fixtures (I’m assuming BC is similar to Ontario and Manitoba where my experience was), but are part of the water distribution system. They are (or should be) certified to ANSI/NSF 61 (Drinking Water System Components – Health Effects). This refers to the lead content of the alloy allowable. Also to the AWWA C-700 standard (Cold Water Meters Displacement Type – Bronze Main Case) that has to do with accuracy of the meter. It’s true they aren’t certified by CSA which seems kind of weird, but CSA often certifies things to the ANSI standard, so if the meter is ANSI certified….well, you get the picture.

              I think you mentioned this was a Neptune meter. If it’s residential, it would probably be a Trident T-10 meter made by Neptune. If I recall properly, there is a stamping on the main case “NSF 61”. The specs for Trident meters can be found on-line – I just checked. They are ANSI/NSF 61 certified and AWWA C-700 certified and use a high-copper no-lead alloy.

              In the cities where I worked, the water utility WAS the city and they also had the inspectors. Easy to do what you wanted. In rural areas, so far as I’ve experienced, building inspectors don’t look at the meter – reason: it’s part of the distribution system and they don’t have to look at it. You don’t have to install it if you don’t want to – actually, I’d be surprised if the water utility wouldn’t just do it themselves – they like to control things like that – but it’s an easy way to make 1 or 2 hours of billable income on a pretty easy job. The meters are generally very reliable and are as secure as the crimp connections they are installed with.

              About the crusty “maintenance guy”. They often are, in my experience. Running a domestic water system is a tough job and people’s health is directly and immediately affected when things go bad. Our water utilities are regulated under provincial rules (sampling, disinfection methods, rates, reporting…) so you can understand some of the pressure they are under. Add to that customers who think they should get water for free…. Anyhow, good luck.

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