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B&G boiler fill valve

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  • #16
    Re: B&G boiler fill valve

    Well now you guys have me pretty confused. I was able to get a hold of the guy that used to maintain this system and he said that he always leaves the fill valve in the open position.....so i dunno. For the the $50 or so, we're going to change the valve to be on the safe side.

    The homeowners are not the type to do anything to the system themselves.

    Flux, I like the looks of that Amtrol unit, but honestly, I've never seen one around here. Most expansion tanks are bladder type that are piped in off the main feed from the boiler before it branches out...as best as I can remember that is......all of the systems that I have worked on still have the big overhead tanks.

    -Chris

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    • #17
      Re: B&G boiler fill valve

      I would suggest that if one is planning on shutting off the boiler fill then don't even bother to install it. Take that money for the fill valve and put it into a low water cut-off. I've never installed a part to just turn around and disable its function right away.

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      • #18
        Re: B&G boiler fill valve

        Originally posted by Swade Plumbing View Post

        Flux, I like the looks of that Amtrol unit, but honestly, I've never seen one around here. Most expansion tanks are bladder type that are piped in off the main feed from the boiler before it branches out...as best as I can remember that is......all of the systems that I have worked on still have the big overhead tanks.
        Swade, if it wasn't for the fact that I live in the North East, which is essentially the boiler capitol of the country, I wouldn't of seen or done the many things I have in hydronic heating either. The fill-trol is a nice easy set-up, and something to keep in mind if you ever get a customer who is tired of water logged expansion tanks. You can also install a bladder tank like you described, but I wasn't taught that way, and I'm not saying it's the wrong way either. If you ever bought the fill-trol, it would be installed first thing coming out of the feed before any branching off...same concept as what you described.

        IMO...leaving the shut off valve off prior to the automatic feed makes the auto feeder useless. Here in Pennsylvania we are required now to install low water cutoff's regardless if it's steam or hot water. IMO, it's a good practice to install low water cutoff's on hot water systems, because it will protect the boiler in the long run. Good luck on whatever you decide to do.

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        • #19
          Re: B&G boiler fill valve

          Hey, don't shoot the messenger here, I'm just telling you what the reason is. You should ALWAYS follow the manufacturers instructions. It they say leave it on, then leave it on. If it says shut it off then shut it off. If there is ever and issue you don't want to be the guy that ignored directions.
          sigpic

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          • #20
            Re: B&G boiler fill valve

            Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
            Hey, don't shoot the messenger here, I'm just telling you what the reason is. You should ALWAYS follow the manufacturers instructions. It they say leave it on, then leave it on. If it says shut it off then shut it off. If there is ever and issue you don't want to be the guy that ignored directions.
            That was my original question though. The instructions say to leave the inlet valve on (open) after installation, then they say close it in the part about resetting the pressure.

            I installed a new fill valve today and are planning to leave the inlet valve open. I'm glad I replaced it too as while I had the piping apart I found that the bypass valve (for manual filling of the system) was leaking, so that was probably at least partially responsible for the pressure creeping up over time.

            I'm not sure why I keep hearing that I should cut out the expansion/overflow tank. My dad's old foreman said that it only needs to be drained every 3-5 years as necessary. This system is old (80+ y/o house and uses a tremendous volume of water. There are 3 zones of baseboard (basement, 1st floor, 2nd floor). The baseboard has 3/4 copper on feed/return, but the 1st and 2nd floor are 1.25" steel pipe on the main feeds/return with 3/4 branches on moniflo tees to the baseboards.

            It seems that like the bible, there are many versions of "the gospel of heating according to...."

            thanks again for the input guys!

            Like I said, I'm apprentice level in my knowledge of heating and I'm very eager to learn.

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            • #21
              Re: B&G boiler fill valve

              Originally posted by Flux View Post
              Swade, if it wasn't for the fact that I live in the North East, which is essentially the boiler capitol of the country, I wouldn't of seen or done the many things I have in hydronic heating either. The fill-trol is a nice easy set-up, and something to keep in mind if you ever get a customer who is tired of water logged expansion tanks. You can also install a bladder tank like you described, but I wasn't taught that way, and I'm not saying it's the wrong way either. If you ever bought the fill-trol, it would be installed first thing coming out of the feed before any branching off...same concept as what you described.

              IMO...leaving the shut off valve off prior to the automatic feed makes the auto feeder useless. Here in Pennsylvania we are required now to install low water cutoff's regardless if it's steam or hot water. IMO, it's a good practice to install low water cutoff's on hot water systems, because it will protect the boiler in the long run. Good luck on whatever you decide to do.

              Can someone give me an example of a low cut-off that they use regularly? this is the only one that I can seem to find online:

              McDonnell & Miller
              GuardDog™
              Model RB-24 (24 volt)
              or RB-120 (120 volt)
              Low Water Cut-off

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              • #22
                Re: B&G boiler fill valve

                Originally posted by Swade Plumbing View Post
                Can someone give me an example of a low cut-off that they use regularly? this is the only one that I can seem to find online:

                McDonnell & Miller
                GuardDog™
                Model RB-24 (24 volt)
                or RB-120 (120 volt)
                Low Water Cut-off
                Safgard 500 series low water cut-off

                I use this one a lot. Works great.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: B&G boiler fill valve

                  Starting with the expansion tank. If it's in good condition then there is no reason to replace it. The guy that cleans the furnace should drain it if it's necessary. When I started in the business there was no such thing as a diaphragm tank for heating systems.

                  For LWCO'S I use safeguard a lot and I like the little McDonald Miller one that screws into a 3/4 fitting. It's compact, fits into tight spots and can be had in line or low voltage models.
                  sigpic

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                  • #24
                    Re: B&G boiler fill valve

                    Originally posted by Swade Plumbing View Post

                    I'm not sure why I keep hearing that I should cut out the expansion/overflow tank. My dad's old foreman said that it only needs to be drained every 3-5 years as necessary. This system is old (80+ y/o house and uses a tremendous volume of water. There are 3 zones of baseboard (basement, 1st floor, 2nd floor). The baseboard has 3/4 copper on feed/return, but the 1st and 2nd floor are 1.25" steel pipe on the main feeds/return with 3/4 branches on moniflo tees to the baseboards.
                    Every heating system is different, and if you you drain every 3-5 years because that's how long it takes for your tank to get water logged, the house right next store could have an expansion tank get water logged much more frequently.

                    Why is that?

                    Air molecules in the water increases the pressure when the system starts up and is running, and when the system shuts down, that air needs to go somewhere, and it goes into the expansion tank. When the system starts back up again, the air forces water into the expansion tank because of the increase pressure. When that happens, the automatic feed lets more water in...and then the problem is starting.

                    The new bladder tanks today virtually eliminate this problem, because it separates the water and air. These tanks don't need service typically, and if these tanks do become water logged, it's because of a bladder rupture. Your old style tank might be in wonderful shape...why replace it? Well, if they didn't have the potential to become water logged, then bladder tanks wouldn't be used today because of it. The old style tanks are mostly used in replacement only today, it's rare that I see a new installation of a boiler...coupled with the old style tanks. If someone is still doing that today...they have some gray hairs and comes from the old school of thought, and quite frankly, there is nothing wrong with that either. I'm still old school in many ways in both Plumbing & Heating.

                    Air scoops, air purger, or air separator all play an important role in eliminating air in the system.

                    I think it all boils down to how a person was taught. I'm not saying my way is right and everyone else is wrong, but there are basic common sense principles in hydronic heating that need to be learned and followed. It's just like putting in an A/C condenser, installation of a system plays a major role. I still have a ways to go in heating, because I don't see it everyday. I've been at this since I was 13, but every heating season, I have to refresh my memory on somethings....it never ends education wise.
                    Last edited by Flux; 10-26-2011, 08:29 PM. Reason: grammar

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                    • #25
                      Re: B&G boiler fill valve

                      I was always under the assumption that an expansion tank, was better than a diaphram, or amtrol type tank, cuz there was no moving parts, or anything to break down. Drain the expansion tank & your back in business.
                      But then I went to a boiler class one day, & the instructor & the boiler rep both told us that they recommend a proper sized diaphram expansion tank always, versus an air expansion tank. Reason being, the air expansion tank allows oxygen into water, & boiler &/ or piping will corrode, or build up sediment much faster. Ever since then, I have always used the Amtrol diaphram type tanks. Thats my 2cents.
                      Last edited by Don the plumber; 10-30-2011, 01:16 PM.

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                      • #26
                        Re: B&G boiler fill valve

                        For low water cutoff's, safguard is our choice as well, as they have many models to choose from.

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