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  • Gas issue

    Ok guys, this one is a doozy!

    I had a pre-inspection on my house today before they drywall. Besides a few silly things I saw Plumbing wise and 3 code violations, my dad and I went into the basement and saw this little gem which is pictured below.

    What you're looking at is my Gas manifold, and the problem is..they are dry-walling my ceiling in the basement because the "super" said it's code, in which I don't believe him. So me and my dad say " We don't think manifold's are allowed to be concealed behind dry wall". The super said it was and he babbled on about his code inspector blah blah blah. My dad took over and pressed him on the issue, and the super pretty much stood his ground.

    So tomorrow I'm going to call the gas company, because this is absolutely un-acceptable to me. I always thought mechanical gas fittings were not allowed to be concealed behind drywall, so I'm going to have to research that a little bit.

    I didn't recognize the flex gas pipe they used...and I was told it was tracpipe. I didn't realized they switched to a black coating. But please take notice how much of the jacket they cutoff!

    This is absolutely sloppy, and the person who did this should be ashamed of himself. You guys who "crow" about doing new work...I'm not impressed one bit. Who in their right mind puts a gas manifold up in the ceiling in a residential basement? The rest of the house Plumbing and Heating wise looks decent, but of course I would of done things much better. I got a few "head scratching" pictures to share if you guys want.

    Btw...take a look at the radon and drain line in this picture. Why are guys not using metal hangers to fasten pipe? I'm going to have to take dry wall down once I move in, to correct this silliness I see.



    Last edited by Flux; 01-11-2012, 08:23 PM.

  • #2
    Re: Gas issue

    What do I know,But if it was black iron, the couplings wouldn't be an issue. Right ????
    I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Gas issue

      ok the black cover is the new type but they should have kept it going up to the nut then out of the tee they should have used a nipple and a 90 would have looked better
      you never close up gas fittings with out access to them

      and it looks like they went cheep cheep cheep with hangers ,they said you wont see it from my house
      i would have them fix it all
      Charlie

      My seek the peek fundraiser page
      http://observatory.mountwashington.o...nal&fr_id=1040


      http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/conditions.php

      new work pictures 12/09
      http://public.fotki.com/hvachawk/

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Gas issue

        How do You do black iron risers going floor to floor, concealed in dry wall?
        You need couplings and 90s. I,m confused!
        I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Gas issue

          We had a inspector a few years back that considered the CSST fittings to be unions and needed ascess. We contacted the sale rep and come to find out the manufactors considers them to be permanet fittings so ascess is not needed. Are you planning to have the drywall left off where the other end of the gas pipe goes because they are the same fitting or close to it. (range, furance, fireplace,waterheater) If you do that your drywall will look like Swiss cheese.

          I would suspect that the drywalling of the basement has more to do with fire codes then anything else. If this manifold is such a problem why don't you ask them to put in a ascess door for you. Or you could mark where it is and do it latter if needed.

          Just so everyone knows I'm not a fan of CSST, thats why I own a Ridged 300.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Gas issue

            Originally posted by gopher View Post
            We had a inspector a few years back that considered the CSST fittings to be unions and needed ascess. We contacted the sale rep and come to find out the manufactors considers them to be permanet fittings so ascess is not needed. Are you planning to have the drywall left off where the other end of the gas pipe goes because they are the same fitting or close to it. (range, furance, fireplace,waterheater) If you do that your drywall will look like Swiss cheese.

            I would suspect that the drywalling of the basement has more to do with fire codes then anything else. If this manifold is such a problem why don't you ask them to put in a ascess door for you. Or you could mark where it is and do it latter if needed.

            Just so everyone knows I'm not a fan of CSST, thats why I own a Ridged 300.
            You're correct, this whole new thing about dry walling basement is supposedly has something to do with a fire code, but yet they are the only builder doing it. Absolutely agree with what your inspector said, cause it was told to us the exact same way when this stuff first came out. The way I understand it as of right now...mechanical joints are fine concealed, but manifolds are not. I personally don't want the drywall on the ceiling, and since it looks like I'm going to be forced to have it, I'm fine with it looking like "swiss cheese" so I can make the necessary changes myself. Even if they do move this manifold, I'm going to re-do it myself anyways, cause I want wall plates,all thread, clamps etc so it looks nice and neat on the wall.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Gas issue

              Flux

              If I was you at this point I would make sure they sized the CSST correctly. There is a big differance between sizing black iron and CSST, and most plumbers I've been around don't upsize for CSST.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Gas issue

                slow down flux. csst is legal behind the wall and so are the fittings. how else would they stub out for a range, dryer, oven, heater if the fittings were not allowed in the wall. as far as manifolds go, they too are legal. plus your's is not a manifold to speak. it's a hybrid install. half csst, half ips.

                as far as hangers go, some codes don't allow metal hangers in contact with plastic. they fear as the product moves it can get cut by the metal. out here, our abs plastic has to be strapped with plastic tape or plastic coated hangers.

                what i don't like is the csst popping out of the ceiling instead of a clean install in the joist bay. as far as the coating goes, that is sloppy, but it's not critical as its purpose is to id the make of the pipe along with all the data it shows. gastite csst is made to encapsulate the plastic sleeve into the nut.

                sloppy install yes. but i wouldn't loose sleep over it. why couldn't they turn the tees to allow for the pipe to be hidden?

                rick.
                phoebe it is

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Gas issue

                  All one has to do is loosen the end nuts and turn the entire manifold up into the bay.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Gas issue

                    Originally posted by toolaholic View Post
                    How do You do black iron risers going floor to floor, concealed in dry wall?
                    You need couplings and 90s. I,m confused!
                    Good work Kevin
                    I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Gas issue

                      Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                      slow down flux. csst is legal behind the wall and so are the fittings. how else would they stub out for a range, dryer, oven, heater if the fittings were not allowed in the wall. as far as manifolds go, they too are legal. plus your's is not a manifold to speak. it's a hybrid install. half csst, half ips.

                      as far as hangers go, some codes don't allow metal hangers in contact with plastic. they fear as the product moves it can get cut by the metal. out here, our abs plastic has to be strapped with plastic tape or plastic coated hangers.

                      what i don't like is the csst popping out of the ceiling instead of a clean install in the joist bay. as far as the coating goes, that is sloppy, but it's not critical as its purpose is to id the make of the pipe along with all the data it shows. gastite csst is made to encapsulate the plastic sleeve into the nut.

                      sloppy install yes. but i wouldn't loose sleep over it. why couldn't they turn the tees to allow for the pipe to be hidden?

                      rick.
                      Green field hangers (rubber coated metal hangers) are extremely popular here, and I would say at least 90% use that for drain line installations.They are made right here in Philadelphia, and is definitely the "go to" hanger. Yea, I heard the myth that metal hangers will dig into PVC if not coated because of vibration, but if that statement is true, then how come strap iron is legal to support those same drain lines? Those plastic straps are garbage even though it's still legal. It drives me nuts when I run across (very rare) those plastic straps, and I can move the entire drain line with my hand. It almost feels like the drain line is being supported by dental floss.

                      Tracpipe states manifolds are not to be concealed, so what is the difference between their manifold and making up your own manifold? It's still the same concept...no? It was too dark in there for me to see who's manufacture it was, but I'm pretty confident it's tracpipe counterstrike by omegaflex....which is right here in Pa.

                      As for the drywall ceiling, the only thing I could come up with so far is....they are most likely going to be insulating the bays under the first floor, and the fire code states it has to be protected by a fire rated material. I don't know all the fire codes even though I use to be a volunteer, but that is the only logical thing I can think of. It's coming down regardless when I move in, because I want to fix some of this stuff because it will eat away at me and drive me straight into insanity.

                      The "super" said "Yea those guys are going to tuck that gas line up in the bay before drywall" and I almost passed out!
                      I'm loosing sleep over it because I have minimal control and I'm at the mercy of another Plumbing & Heating hack...opps I mean Professional. This is the first time in my life that I have to depend on someone else for Plumbing, and it doesn't feel too good...you know?

                      I don't remember if I took a picture of it today, but one of the back vents had a MAJOR belly in it, and I was like ..."That going to be fixed right? That is a code violation", and the "super" said "no problem".

                      But for sanity reasons Rick...please agree with me that a better location for this so called "manifold" would of been better on the wall instead of the ceiling.
                      Last edited by Flux; 01-12-2012, 12:46 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Gas issue

                        Do you have kids or grandkids, that like to play plumber.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Gas issue

                          Originally posted by Flux View Post
                          But for sanity reasons Rick...please agree with me that a better location for this so called "manifold" would of been better on the wall instead of the ceiling.
                          if the manifold had isolation valves, then it would only make sense to have it exposed or in an access panel in the wall.

                          but this is nothing more than a set of tees and not a true engineered manifold. there are no shut off valves and therefore leaving it exposed is of no use at this time.

                          now if you want to add ball valves, then it would make sense to add an access panel to get to the "manifold"

                          post more pictures and then we all can critique the job. right now i know it's killing you.

                          rick.
                          phoebe it is

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Gas issue

                            Originally posted by gopher View Post
                            Do you have kids or grandkids, that like to play plumber.
                            No kids yet

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Gas issue

                              Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post

                              post more pictures and then we all can critique the job. right now i know it's killing you.

                              rick.
                              Unfortunately, the next time I'll be in the house, it will already be drywalled. Because it was so dark down there, I couldn't focus on looking for any valves.

                              I have some other head scratching pictures though...but it's Plumbing designed done in my house.

                              Comment

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