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  • No vent

    One of the bigger co.'s were out for a toilet that wasn't flushing. HO said they cabled it, ran into an obstruction about 60' in and pulled out roots. Said it would be 2,500 to dig and repair.

    Got the call for a second opinion on Friday. Told the HO I was booked, would be out Sat. Got there, pulled the toilet, put the see snake it. Line looked as clean as a whistle all the way to the cesspool (60' from wc). Ran water in the lav to clean my cable on my camera as I was pulling it back. About 20' of cable left in the line I was wondering why I hadn't seen water.

    Located the outlet of the gray water line that serves the lav and shower. The vents for those were tied in well below flood rim level and the outlet had been covered up by weed blocker causing it to become backed up / slow as well.

    Re-set the wc. The toilet doesn't back up, it siphons. Venting issue I figure. Thought maybe the wc vent was tied in below slab??? So I cable and clear all kinds of junk out of the gray water line. Toilet still siphons. HO said it only started happening in the last few days.

    I was stumped, called an expert and he was nice enough to answer my phone call on a Saturday. He said definitely a vent issue.

    Pulled wc again to camera and look for vent fitting. Found none. Located wc line where it exists the building (slab on grade). Dug out and cut in san tee (yes we can flat vent with san tees here) and vented on the exterior of house (cottage really) and up above roof. WC flushes great.

    Still stumped as to why it started to do that only now. The wc has been in there for 6+ years. The cesspool has been there for 15. The expert I called said that maybe since the water level in the cesspool is higher now its not venting at the cesspool like it used to.

    I dunno... Any thoughts would be appreciated...
    Ray

    “Wealth is the product of man's capacity to think.”— Francisco d'Anconia
    Atlas Shrugged (Part 2, Chapter 2, Page 411)

    www.mauiplumbinginc.com


  • #2
    Re: No vent

    maybe that expert needs to take a look first hand to get a better idea

    rick.
    phoebe it is

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: No vent

      If the commode never had a good seal from the get go ,
      It would let flush just fine

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: No vent

        Agree with Delcase, the toilet was sucking air from somewhere else.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: No vent

          There has to be either an obstruction or a belly in the waste line because toilets don't need vents to flush
          sigpic

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: No vent

            Originally posted by Flux View Post
            Agree with Delcase, the toilet was sucking air from somewhere else.


            Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
            There has to be either an obstruction or a belly in the waste line because toilets don't need vents to flush


            This could get interesting...............

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: No vent

              gonna go with NHMaster on this one. Toilets are self siphoning fixtures.
              No, it's not rocket science, it's plumbing and unlike rocket science it requires a license.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: No vent

                Yep they is indeed which is why the IPC no longer posts a distance from WC to vent rule.
                sigpic

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: No vent

                  The end of the pipe is under water and its air locking the commode and siphoning
                  Just like it would if the sewer stopped flowing
                  crack the seal and it will flush
                  Ray put in the vent and it let the commode flush and the air to escape , while the end of the pipe is still under water
                  In the perfect world the commode my not need a vent , but it is what it is

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: No vent

                    delcase is on it

                    the pipe was acting as a combination waste and vent until the septic tank got full. then it lost it's venting capability.

                    still might need to go check it out to be sure
                    phoebe it is

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: No vent

                      So now toilets don't need vents to flush properly? Interesting!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: No vent

                        I have had 2 toilets at seperate houses not flush because of NO vent and draining into a closed system. 1 was on septic with no hard vent on the entire house just 1 aav. and the other was into a lift pit with no vent on the toilet or pit. no place for the air to go.

                        Most likely the reason the toilet siphoned down was because it would fill in the bowl to high then when it could finally drain the fill valve was shut off so it couldn't add water to the bowl after the siphone.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: No vent

                          Delcase's answer seems right. Rick, your more than welcome to come for a visit anytime.

                          The wc siphoned out just about 30 seconds after flush, the fill valve was still filling at that time (the cottage had very poor water pressure).

                          As for not needing vents on a toilet...I'm not so sure about that one.

                          Gonna email the HO tonight to remind him again that his cesspool may or may not be failing which is why its full. Either way it needs to be pumped.
                          Ray

                          “Wealth is the product of man's capacity to think.”— Francisco d'Anconia
                          Atlas Shrugged (Part 2, Chapter 2, Page 411)

                          www.mauiplumbinginc.com

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: No vent

                            Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                            There has to be either an obstruction or a belly in the waste line because toilets don't need vents to flush
                            NH: A toilet may not require a vent to flush properly, but the water that's flushing has to have a place to go. If the line to the cesspool was underwater at the end outlet, and there's no other vent allowing the displaced air to escape, that set of conditions will create a slightly pressurized area in the pipeline and will impede water flow to the extent that water and air have to change places inside that closed system. Thus the toilet won't flush properly. It may finish the flush eventually but you won't get that good "slam" we look for to carry away the reward.
                            Time flies like an arrow.

                            Fruit flies like a banana.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: No vent

                              Originally posted by DELCASE View Post
                              The end of the pipe is under water and its air locking the commode and siphoning
                              Just like it would if the sewer stopped flowing
                              crack the seal and it will flush
                              Ray put in the vent and it let the commode flush and the air to escape , while the end of the pipe is still under water
                              In the perfect world the commode my not need a vent , but it is what it is
                              Bingo!!
                              Time flies like an arrow.

                              Fruit flies like a banana.

                              Comment

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