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"The Great Propress debate"

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  • #76
    Re: "The Great Propress debate"

    Depending on the situations from the picture, that would dictate how long the repair would take. Could be less than a hour or it could take 3-4 hours. Either way I could get it done with or with out a Propress. I didn't read every post here so I don't know the situations from the picture. If the water could not shut off completly, a jet sweat could be used with a full port ball valve. The valve would be a extra charge, because of the situation of the water not shutting off. I have no problem charging extra for it, as it is not my fault the water doesn't shut off. If the water is bleeding by just a little, a coat hanger and a rag will work wonders. If the water is coming from the bottom 90, use the coat hanger and rag to sweat on the lower 90, and the copper riser to the 2nd 90 first. Then pull out the coat hanger and rag and sweat the last 90 before the water can reach where your soldering. If it is even a smaller amount of water bleeding by, some stale bread could be used. If the water is coming from the top 90, then they are getting the extra charge from me sweating on the expensive ball valve.
    Last edited by Will Rogers Plumbing; 06-04-2012, 08:17 AM.
    Will Rogers Plumbing
    Moore, Oklahoma
    (
    405) 323-2852

    "Your Solution for Any Sewer and Drain Cleaning Needs"

    "We Unclog Drains That Others Can't"



    www.willrogersplumbing.com
    http://willrogersplumbing.com/?page_id=8

    "Oklahoma's Favorite Plumbers!"

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    • #77
      Re: "The Great Propress debate"

      Thanks Will; At worst, two ball valves but I suspect a union, an elbow and a coupling will do the trick and as was pointed out in another forum the freeze machine (or your nitrogen bottle) can be brought out if needed. Maybe my previous post was a bit harsh but when someone says that no other plumbing companies would tackle this job because they don't believe they can do it in 5 1/5 hours I get a little suspicious. There is not a single plumber in this area that would turn that down unless he was too busy to bother with it.
      sigpic

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      • #78
        Re: "The Great Propress debate"

        So does that mean you're accepting the bet?


        Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
        Thanks Will; At worst, two ball valves but I suspect a union, an elbow and a coupling will do the trick and as was pointed out in another forum the freeze machine (or your nitrogen bottle) can be brought out if needed. Maybe my previous post was a bit harsh but when someone says that no other plumbing companies would tackle this job because they don't believe they can do it in 5 1/5 hours I get a little suspicious. There is not a single plumber in this area that would turn that down unless he was too busy to bother with it.

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        • #79
          Re: "The Great Propress debate"

          i have $2000 betting that you can't complete it in 1 hour or less. this is an entire city block of piping with numerous retail stores and a giant fitness center.

          and of course i can solder the pipe together, but why would i even bother when i have propress and i don't need valves, unions and wasted time.

          anyone that thinks they can freeze the pipe is either dreaming or don't understand how the freezing process works. do you really think between the giant fitness centers showers, toilets, sinks and the balance of retail stores that the system is 100% tight with no running toilets, faucets or showers. no water softeners or r/o units running, no janitorial services.

          freezing 2.5'' copper in 2 locations under no flow conditions takes more than 1 hour and a lot of co2 or my superfreeze units. all of which i own multiple units of and wouldn't even waste my time thinking the system will freeze.

          the $2000 first class flight and hotel is there. even treat you to a ruth chris steak too. even put you up in a top notch hotel that i was 1 of the plumbers who built it, right across the street. don't want you to fall asleep after a late and long night watching water drain.

          don't worry about tools, even the 2.5 jet sweet, i'll have everything you need, just make me a list what you want.

          rick.

          i'll even film it to share with all your supporters.

          of course there is only so much time i can put this job off. so the next week or so would still fly.
          phoebe it is

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          • #80
            Re: "The Great Propress debate"

            Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
            I posted the pic on a professional plumbing forum and other than maybe two guys, everyone else said the same thing I did.
            I had a look at your thread on Plumbing Zone and I think I only saw two people (out of the 7 pages) that actually said they could do it in under 1 hour. No one said it could not be done but some did not answer the question and many said more than 1 hour (at least that's my take after scanning all the replies briefly).

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            • #81
              Re: "The Great Propress debate"

              The Bottom Line through my crystal ball.
              In as much as NO ONE, will call the bet, at the end of the day it will be Rick wearing the white hat of the Good Guys thanks to his SKILL and the ProPress System.

              At midnight the valves were shut down, and has happened many times before, they wouldn't shut all the way off. In addition, someone on an upper floor had to flush a toilet and wash their hands. No matter.

              Two precision cuts with a saz-all, and a twice around with a file and reamer the pipe is prepped and ready to go.
              While the water subsides he fabs up the elbow, nipples and two couplings, and finishes off his milkshake.

              Ascending the ladder for the final time, the components are quickly attached to the pipe making sure that the couplings and
              markings are all aligned.
              He then attaches the crimping collar and starts firing away.

              30 seconds later, all is quite. Then a lone voice says "crack the valve, we're good to go". At full line pressure, not a spec of moisture can be found.

              Down below he hears the building owner challenging the contractor he originally hired to do this job.
              "Explain to me again, why you don't own one of those ProPress gizmos and why you won't buy one to take care of my properties"?

              "It's been nice knowing you".

              "Say, Rick, I have similar issues on a couple of dozen other properties I own, and I want you to take care of for me using that ProPress gizmo".
              "I'll have the office email you a list of what I need done and an open P.O.

              As our hero drives home in the early morning darkness, he laments the fact that his favorite milk shake place closes at midnight. Luckily though he brought along a spare that's still ice cold in his igloo cooler.
              -30-

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              • #82
                Re: "The Great Propress debate"

                Rick; I just can't. I know you guys think I'm weasling out here but honestly, I have students until the 14th and then I'm off to Kansas city for 13 days. It would be a fun challenge though, win or loose and hell with you there taking movies if I get all buggered up you can always climb on up with the press and save the day. Another plumber suggested using bolt through flanges and Jet-Swett which is an option also. Seriously, a Jet Swett usually does the job but an 1 1/2" test ball with hose extension works too and let's you get the plug further away from the heat.....and they hold
                sigpic

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                • #83
                  Re: "The Great Propress debate"

                  Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                  Rick; I just can't. I know you guys think I'm weasling out here but honestly, I have students until the 14th and then I'm off to Kansas city for 13 days. It would be a fun challenge though, win or loose and hell with you there taking movies if I get all buggered up you can always climb on up with the press and save the day. Another plumber suggested using bolt through flanges and Jet-Swett which is an option also. Seriously, a Jet Swett usually does the job but an 1 1/2" test ball with hose extension works too and let's you get the plug further away from the heat.....and they hold
                  once again, i never said i'm not more than capable of soldering the repair. it's the 1 hour time that is in question.

                  remember me, you and others go back way before propress. heck i still have burns/ scars on the inside of my elbow from 1975 while laying on my back soldering under a home and had a hot drip roll down my sleeve and settle in the crease of my inner elbow. i've done 6'' copper with water still dripping using oxy/ acy and a mirror with silver brazing rod at 2 am as the other company ran out of gas and attempts and fittings in the middle of the night. i delivered the gas and fittings, and while looking over the job, i consulted with the building engineer and suggested i take over. the other company was actually thrilled to have me complete the job as they were not qualified in this type of repair.

                  so it's not that i haven't paid my dues with traditional soldered fittings, it's i have a choice to use what's best for the job and in this case the tool that will get it done in the time frame and budget is a propress. why you can't see that is beyond me and others who have used both ways.

                  i know what i've seen, and even though i've never worked at this project, i know what it takes to get it done and up and running in the most efficient way. both in labor and material cost.

                  i guess i'll sit on the $2000. for the next challenge. maybe sectional vs. drum vs jetter.

                  rick.
                  phoebe it is

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                  • #84
                    Re: "The Great Propress debate"

                    It won't be me on the sectional V drum thing, I'm a K60 man. My back won't take hauling a drum machine up and down a flight of stairs anymore.
                    sigpic

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                    • #85
                      Re: "The Great Propress debate"

                      Man how did I miss this thread, all the big guns are in here!

                      I have to admit, I've NEVER came across a job in my career in where I couldn't complete the solder job, no matter how much water was coming out of the pipe at the time.

                      I'm on the fence regarding Propress and could lean either way.

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                      • #86
                        Re: "The Great Propress debate"

                        Originally posted by Flux View Post
                        Man how did I miss this thread, all the big guns are in here!

                        I have to admit, I've NEVER came across a job in my career in where I couldn't complete the solder job, no matter how much water was coming out of the pipe at the time.

                        I'm on the fence regarding Propress and could lean either way.
                        remember this is not a debate if it can or can't be done. we all know a solder repair can be done. nothing is impossible. what the debate is all about is nhmaster feels he can do the repair under the conditions i have described in under an hour.

                        personally myself and others feel he's been around too much pvc glue fumes if he thinks he can get it done in under 1 hour.

                        that's really what the debate is all about.

                        read the job specs i've written about and give me your honest guess. under 1 hour or over 1 hour.

                        rick.
                        phoebe it is

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                        • #87
                          Re: "The Great Propress debate"

                          Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                          remember this is not a debate if it can or can't be done. we all know a solder repair can be done. nothing is impossible. what the debate is all about is nhmaster feels he can do the repair under the conditions i have described in under an hour.

                          personally myself and others feel he's been around too much pvc glue fumes if he thinks he can get it done in under 1 hour.

                          that's really what the debate is all about.

                          read the job specs i've written about and give me your honest guess. under 1 hour or over 1 hour.

                          rick.
                          Rick I think both sides make great arguments, and you know that I even talked about getting a Propress.

                          The thing about Propress that discourages me is...you and every other person who presses has the same P.I.A customer as I that would say... "It took you 3 minutes to make a repair, and you're charging me this much?" I don't feel like having those battles right now with my customers cause they don't understand the economics of business. It's just like when I asked you and a few others about jetting and using the customers water...I know someone is going to b*tch at me for using their water on top of charging them good money.

                          I agree with you that pressing is much faster than soldering and DEFINITELY has it's place in our industry...no argument from me. But I also agree with N.H. -Okie- and stolen that soldering still and should have it's place in our industry. I believe it's our responsibility to teach the young bucks coming up through the trade, what Plumbing is all about the old school way like we all learned and were taught by guys before us.

                          I love new gadgets and toys in this trade, so I will most likely bite one day and buy a pressing tool. But I have to admit that there are times in where I just have to do things the old school way, cause it calls for it, and it gives me much pride cause I have the skill to do it correctly. I still pack and pour joints now and then...where as some would be quick to use a fernco or mission coupling.

                          But as for your scenario...Propress would get the job done faster no questions.

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                          • #88
                            Re: "The Great Propress debate"

                            Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                            Rick; I just can't. I know you guys think I'm weasling out here but honestly, I have students until the 14th and then I'm off to Kansas city for 13 days. It would be a fun challenge though, win or loose and hell with you there taking movies if I get all buggered up you can always climb on up with the press and save the day. Another plumber suggested using bolt through flanges and Jet-Swett which is an option also. Seriously, a Jet Swett usually does the job but an 1 1/2" test ball with hose extension works too and let's you get the plug further away from the heat.....and they hold
                            I know you'd be there if your schedule would allow it. Besides, I'm sure there will be another time for Rick to think he's right and provide another wager. Since I'm staying in Cali, maybe a double or nothing milwaukee cutter vs ridgid #15 would entertain the masses?
                            Buy cheap, buy twice.

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                            • #89
                              Re: "The Great Propress debate"

                              Originally posted by gear junkie View Post
                              I know you'd be there if your schedule would allow it. Besides, I'm sure there will be another time for Rick to think he's right and provide another wager. Since I'm staying in Cali, maybe a double or nothing milwaukee cutter vs ridgid #15 would entertain the masses?
                              come to think of it, when are you taking me fishing from the last bet

                              ben, you think you can do it under an hour and be nhmasters fill in

                              rick.
                              phoebe it is

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                              • #90
                                Re: "The Great Propress debate"

                                Has anyone been over to the Plumbing Zone site to see that thread. I see that several of the regulars here are also members there under the same screen name. I had to chuckle as I read post #75 - that was not what I understood reading this thread.

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