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  • Re: "The Great Propress debate"

    I'll be your huckleberry. Thats just my game.

    I'll bet my car, against your 2500.

    Time starts when i cut the pipe until water is back on. Im betting i can do the actual repair in a hour or less. Weather it be from a ladder or scissor lift or hanging from a rope. I have the option of doing anything in advance of cutting the pipe to make the actual repair go as fast as possible.

    So. There it is I'm calling your bluff. I will meet you a day before to take a look at the job and look around at the buildings it serves.

    So what'll it be?

    Comment


    • Re: "The Great Propress debate"

      i have more cars than i know what to do with. the job is already scheduled for tuesday. but it sounds like you want to pre fab the fittings so all you have are 2 joints to solder. so realistically 2 - 1/2 unions and a jet sweet will work as you'll already have the piece fabbed up without the clock running.

      the bet was to complete the job in an hour or less. time starts when you touch the tools or ladder or shut off valve. not when you have already fabbed up 75% of the repair.

      why not fab it up on clock time when the water is still draining, like i am with propress.

      tuesday is 5 days away.

      rick.
      phoebe it is

      Comment


      • Re: "The Great Propress debate"

        Why would I waste valuable time doing stuff like fabricating with the line cut, when i can do it before?

        Im betting my only car. My way to work, to the store. To prove to you that the actual repair is possible in under a hour. Think of the fabricated piece as a fitting. Or hell I'll buy one pre fabbed before hand and call it a part. Either way I called. I can leave tomorrow. What say you?

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        • Re: "The Great Propress debate"

          no one ever said it can't be done. of course it can be done. it's that a propress can get it done without worrying about water dripping in a lot less time than soldering.

          once you own the press tool and jaws, there is next to nothing that can't be done. start adding up the extra down time for soldering and prep, the extra fittings needed to allow for a jet sweet, the jet sweet tools for 1/2''-4'' and the price of the propress goes away real quick. with labor rates and labor savings, there is no comparison.

          it's not just a repair tool either. i've been to hotels that are all propress. shopping malls that are propress to 4'' and victaulic to 6''. mechanical joints are a proven method. look at all the fire sprinkler mains hanging in buildings, stores, factories.

          as far as the wasting valuable time. all time is valuable and all time cost money. i'm sure anyone bidding a solder repair on this job would be a lot more money than me bidding the same repair.

          remember a pipe machine/ threader is more money than a propress. of course you'll never find a plumber using hand dies on anything more than a simple repair. pipe threading is getting to be a lost art as the days of gal water pipe are pretty much gone and threaded gas pipe is limited too. but i still have several pipe threading machines that are pretty much collecting dust. shoot even fore sprinkler companies are switching over to plastic in residential.

          copper is always going to be around, but it might not be used as much in new work like it use too. but for repair work, propress is the way to get it done.

          rick.
          phoebe it is

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          • Re: "The Great Propress debate"

            Nice post Rick and so very true. Some folks just don't get it, not yet anyway.

            Comment


            • Re: "The Great Propress debate"

              So. I take that as a no? Don't want to have to eat crow soup? Why do you get to dictate how I go about the repair? The only thing that matters is how long the water is off. And I'm sorry if im just a little better than your average roto rooter plumber. But who in their right mind would cut the pipe first, then fab it up on a job like this?

              Ill drive my car up there. Sign the title over. Do the job and go back home. If i fail ill take the bus and eat humble pie for the rest of my life.

              Think about it. Mull it over. I'm calling you out. I can make the repair in under a hour. I'll order a special arrangement of pre assembled fittings and get the job done. There. There is a non pressed solution for this. And all your press fan boys should get in on this as well. You guys should be practically foaming at the mouth at this opportunity.

              Comment


              • Re: "The Great Propress debate"

                I always joked about street couplings...

                http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewi...id=60082039640

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                • Re: "The Great Propress debate"

                  i rather doubt head to head you could compete with me in any plumbing related job. 37 years of plumbing has taught me right from wrong and speed. what it all boils down to is the bottom line. the bottom line is my method will get it done and up and running without any worries. nothing to prefab. no unions or ball valves to add to the list of non necessary parts.

                  remember that nhmaster set the contest. he's the one that stated he could get it done in under an hour. now you want to take his place and tweak the contest to allow for prefabbed fittings. just adding to overall time required/ bid to complete the job. remember when bidding a job, the price is based upon total time spent on the project. not just the time the water is off. remember i can easily solder this project too. and i would also prefab the replacement piece before climbing the ladder. but the overall time spent on the job is still the overall time. not just the time the water is off. sure i would set up before midnight water shut down and get everything together. but my time and pay is based on the time i start. not the time the water is off.

                  now for kicks, show me you can hand cut, hand ream and hand thread a piece of 1'' black steel pipe and still catch a thread in 66 seconds. then i might be up for some competition. the pipe is already in a tristand so the clock starts when you lift the cutter and stops when the 90 is threaded onto the pipe.

                  save your money for the next roundup and then you won't lose your car and still have fun doing the competition.

                  heck the amount of time on this thread, back and forth, you could have driven here and been back home in your car with nothing lost.

                  i don't know how else to explain it to you.

                  rick.
                  phoebe it is

                  Comment


                  • Re: "The Great Propress debate"

                    Welp, I can see you guys have been busy here
                    If anybody is interested in an update, I finally meet up with the local ridgid rep, He actually drove out to my house, he had a new jaw in the bag pulled it out and put it in his rp330 and it had a crooked crimp also although not as bad as mine, He put my ridgid standard jaw in his rp330 and it also crimped crooked in his gun. Plus 2 points for ridgid rep, as for ridgid quality control I'm not sure? This was only on the 1/2 inch jaws
                    To make a long story short he ended up giving me his old rusty jaws out of his demo gun but shoot! they crimped straighter than arrow.
                    After a little research I found out that Klauke makes my nibco press gun, (they have all kind of hydraulic tools that use the same body) they also make the nibco compact press tool and the rothenberger compact, they were pressing fitttings back in 1989 when vieja started press fittings in germany. Amazing what you can find searching for online patents.
                    My nibco pc-100 can use the Ridgid standard jaws, Nibco jaws, rothenberger standard jaws, Rems standard pressing jaws, Stanley virax jaws, alot of this stuff is interchangeable but wether they will honor the warranty is another matter.
                    Hey Rick do you have a review yet of that stanley virax M-20?
                    Did I hear somebody was going to fly me out to somewhere for lunch?

                    Comment


                    • Re: "The Great Propress debate"

                      [QUOTE=PLUMBER RICK;377253][QUOTE=NHMaster3015;377199]

                      i'll take yo up on that bet. i'll pay for the first class flight, first class hotel and first class meal, if you come out here on my dime and show me you can get this done in an hour or less. it's a total of 2- 2.5'' copper couplings, and a 90. 15' straight up in the air. a whole city block of businesses to shut down and drain.
                      That is the scope of the job

                      i know for a fact, it can't be done, the contractor who's hired me and the management company also knows it can't be done in the time constraints they need. that's why they hired me.
                      now if you really think sight unseen, you can get it done in an hour, the flight, hotel and meals are on me. when you fail, the tabs on you.
                      You have been there and seen the job so why can't I ?


                      i know for a fact i couldn't get the water to stop dripping in an hour. add in the union and the 2.5'' jet sweet along with the extra joints and prep time, you're well over an hour and that doesn't account for 15' height off the ground. now add in the scissor lift to give you a work platform and then you could have paid for all the material.
                      Now you seem to backing away from that and adding others because you know damn well that any of us with experience can certainly stop the drip and make the repair in an hour or less.

                      The travel time, set up staging time, turning the water back on time is the same regardless of what method you use. Using Jet Swett's or test balls the drain down time is the same also. This is about making the repair itself and since everyone has seen what is there, pre-fabbing can be done by either contestant so that's another moot point.

                      So tell me why is a guy with 35 years experience and a half million in tools a one man band?
                      sigpic

                      Comment


                      • Re: "The Great Propress debate"

                        lets see. on the other forum, you pretty much said that i couldn't do it in under 5.5 hours and you don't believe that it's a city block long. yet you haven't a clue where and what the job looks like. yet i've been there and i drive by on a regular basis. you also said that no other plumber in town could perform the job. another lie. the only person offered the job was the plumbing company that asked me to do the job. you can lie all you want on another forum, but don't try to come here and change things up.

                        the set up time might not quite be the same. all i need is an extension ladder to work from. soldering 2.5' copper requires 2 free hands. 1 for the torch and 1 for the solder. not sure if you can safely hold onto anything on the extension ladder.

                        you're more than welcome to see the job, but you already turned it down due to your schedule. i'm scheduled for tuesday.

                        remember you're the one that stated that you could do it under 1 hour. what amazes me is you own 2 propress tools and for some foolish reason, you would rather solder this job than use a tool especially designed for a repair like this. not quite sure what you're really teaching your students. sounds like the union i was in for 15 years. the longer it takes and more manpower, the happier the union is. at 1 time we were not allowed to use all thread hanger rod. we had to cut and thread steel rod with no more than 2 inches of thread on each end. just so that it employed more people and used more labor to get the same results. a hanger to support the pipe.

                        as far as 35 years, you can't even do the math. 1975 to present is 37 years. 1/2 million in tools might be a stretch. but well over 1 million invested in the business. i work by myself and over 1500 of my customers get me. if it's not me, i'll refer them to a buddy that can get there in time. just like the dozen or more other companies that refer me to jobs they don't do.

                        so now you do want to come out and play by your original rules.
                        phoebe it is

                        Comment


                        • Re: "The Great Propress debate"

                          When a new customers asks " where is your torch and solder ?" I tell them that's for old guys

                          Comment


                          • Re: "The Great Propress debate"

                            Hey Rick what's up with the pex out in California are you guys using it yet. The other thing I was wondering is I have like four customers that live out in California and have houses or rentals out here in baltimore would you take any new customers ?

                            Comment


                            • Re: "The Great Propress debate"

                              Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                              i know for a fact, it can't be done, the contractor who's hired me and the management company also knows it can't be done in the time constraints they need. that's why they hired me.
                              You said that in an earlier post, emphasis on "I know for a fact, it cant be done"


                              lets see. on the other forum, you pretty much said that i couldn't do it in under 5.5 hours and you don't believe that it's a city block long
                              .

                              Show me where I said that on "another forum" although I do wonder somewhat about an entire city block being fed off a 2-1/2" main but then it is California and they do some strange things out there. LOL

                              the set up time might not quite be the same. all i need is an extension ladder to work from. soldering 2.5' copper requires 2 free hands. 1 for the torch and 1 for the solder. not sure if you can safely hold onto anything on the extension ladder.
                              You can't hang your torch from a hook off the ladder? Surely in the half million or so dollars worth of tools you have you can find a hook somewhere. LOL


                              remember you're the one that stated that you could do it under 1 hour. what amazes me is you own 2 propress tools and for some foolish reason, you would rather solder this job than use a tool especially designed for a repair like this. not quite sure what you're really teaching your students. sounds like the union i was in for 15 years. the longer it takes and more manpower, the happier the union is. at 1 time we were not allowed to use all thread hanger rod. we had to cut and thread steel rod with no more than 2 inches of thread on each end. just so that it employed more people and used more labor to get the same results. a hanger to support the pipe.
                              What I said was that the repair could be done in under an hour without Pro-Press. I never said that Pro-Press was a bad way to do the repair and in fact if I had the job to do I would probably drag mine out but you insisted (see 1st quote by you) that Pro-Press was the only way this could be done on time which is BS and you damn well know it's BS. If you didn't own a press would it make sense to go out and buy one just to do this job?

                              as far as 35 years, you can't even do the math. 1975 to present is 37 years. 1/2 million in tools might be a stretch. but well over 1 million invested in the business. i work by myself and over 1500 of my customers get me. if it's not me, i'll refer them to a buddy that can get there in time. just like the dozen or more other companies that refer me to jobs they don't do.
                              If I read through past posts of yours the math gets real fuzzy. It ranges from 22 years to 35 years and now 37 years. Again, it's just you so why invest in all those tools. They don't appreciate in value and if you really do have what you say you have that would be one of the poorest business decisions possible. BTW, there is a pretty finite amount that a one man show can make based on the amount of time available for working, planning, advertising, taking care of paperwork etc. The IRS has all that information in their little (ok big) blue books and anyone that is in business or has tried growing their business is well aware of the constraints there.

                              so now you do want to come out and play by your original rules.
                              You only post that because you know that I can't be there. Why not let Stolen take up the challenge or is he a little too close LOL
                              sigpic

                              Comment


                              • Re: "The Great Propress debate"

                                Originally posted by Clipper City Plumber View Post
                                When a new customers asks " where is your torch and solder ?" I tell them that's for old guys
                                I have a three full bath colonial with laundry room coming up. How much to pipe it with copper and Pro-Press
                                sigpic

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