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"The Great Propress debate"

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  • Core.inc
    started a topic "The Great Propress debate"

    "The Great Propress debate"

    Greetings,
    So Of Course I have been lurking for some time, do you know if you Google propress that this forum comes up all the time in the search results. It has been fun reading the some 30 page threads on The propress debate, for some reason I feel like I know plumber Rick allready. So I have had a Propress Tool sitting in the garage for some time and decided to try it out just for kicks and giggles. Here is my Lowly humble take on it.
    I'm a tool guy And any new tool to make something easier I say go for, I do like Propress but here are some annoying points That I think anyone taking the plunge should Be AWARE of before.
    1.) I spent a buttload on fittings just to do a small shower.
    2.) Fittings often form a razor like crimp edge that will cut your throat if they could reach it.
    3.) The center of a tee fitting must be crimped at an almost 90 degree angle or else the the jaw hits the other legs. This seriously ticked me off, I prepped and fitted 4 tees under this house thinking I could crimp them from the side and no go, I would of had the gun almost straight up and down to crimp the center t, if they made the center t just a little longer you could crimp it from all sides??? Makes me think thank vieja is just pushing its partners tool purchases (Ridgid) (I could of crimped it with their almost 2,000 dollars crimp ring set.
    4.)The 1/2" jaw that I just took out the bag never used, would not line up proprerly and was leaving half of the fitting crimped higher than the other, (Really! I just took it out of the bag)
    5.) I found myself fretting over wether the seal would crimp over the super deep engraving that mueller stamps on it's crappy pipe every 12 inches! REALLY! and ended up cutting another piece every time I didn't see the engraving.
    6.) I ended up cleaning the pipe anyway, as the light patina often hides imperfections in the pipe that showed up with a quick scour and I often had to sand out pits and nicks because WELL copper pipe does not come to your house in perfect condition, after that I then fretted, oh no did I sand the pipe to much and the seal will be to loose now.
    7.) Street fittings Were so banged up straight out of the bag That I ended up using only one out of about a dozen I bought as I couldn't sand the pit and scar marks out of them.
    8.) The pipe entering My bronze male adapters would spin a little even after crimped Almost like they were more resistant to crimping, Tech said they have had same reports but no leaks as a result.
    9.) I actually had to spin one fitting, as per the system allows but felt like cutting it out and replacing would make me feel better.
    10.) I could go on if the propress newbs want me to?
    Truthfully I actually like the system, The type K long sweep fittings, No flame, No sweat when wet, No dealing with water soluble flux, GO CALIFORNIA! Offers some joint flexing for us Earthquake Califonians, 50 year Warranty and a tech line, You won't find that for solder fittings.
    Eh I am Split down the middle 50/50 on the subject.
    Pictures attached! Bring on the Grammer Nazis!
    Attached Files
    Last edited by Core.inc; 05-31-2012, 02:16 AM.

  • Don the plumber
    replied
    Re: "The Great Propress debate"

    I think you should challenge NH, to see if he could do that faster.

    Leave a comment:


  • geno gardner
    replied
    Re: "The Great Propress debate"

    That took some guts Rick. I was more entertained, however, by your going down the hill in the ball. That looked hilarious. I could see you spilling a chocolate shake doing that.

    Leave a comment:


  • PLUMBER RICK
    replied
    Re: "The Great Propress debate"

    thanks gene. i know that my safety harness is old school. but at the time i needed it, it was either a rope or a fall. not sure what would feel better. broken ribs or broken bones

    i guess if i make a habit of working high off the ground, i'll invest in your harness. my belt was left over from a job in the 80's used while i was working inside a steel monument at a park.

    heck even a bungy cord attached around my ankles would be more fun.





    rick.

    Leave a comment:


  • geno gardner
    replied
    Re: "The Great Propress debate"

    Rick, man if you fell the shock from that strap would really hurt if not outright injure you. Then imagine hanging on your side where the clip is located till help actually helps.

    Heck, you own everything else under the sun why not complete your collection and stick one of these in your truck. NS® Fall Protection Full Body Fall Harness & Lanyard Combo - 26979 - Northern Safety Co., Inc. It's got a shock absorber on the strap. $65 for the setup.

    That's a sweet ladder!!

    Leave a comment:


  • PLUMBER RICK
    replied
    Re: "The Great Propress debate"

    ccp, i'm glad this post finally got you to join in the forum conversation instead of just lurking.

    the original repair was going to be a propress 90 and 2- couplings. problem is this block long complex is occupied by a very large health club along with other commercial stores and shops.

    freezing is not an option as there is no way to prevent water movement through the system. all it takes is a toilet that runs, a filter that runs, a trap primer that runs even a janitor that's cleaning. not to mention 2.5'' copper takes well over an hour in ideal conditions with no flow to worry about. with propress, dripping water was not the issue.

    the issue was that we had no access to the stores to restart and flush out the air. not to mention that the gym has a large heater and circ. pumps. once again without proper access to shut down and restart, i wasn't going to ruin pumps by letting them run, when this was a non emergency repair.

    every water district in america uses this companies clamps. not only as a repair clamp, but they make saddle clamps for cutting in a tee and clamps that allow you to join 2 pieces of pipe. this particular clamp was actually one of the smallest ones in their line up and is rated for 350#. the initial leak was less than 2 drops a minute. not exactly a disaster. if it wasn't for the location of the drip next to the car ramp and walking path, i doubt they would have even been concerned or known about it.

    there are many repair methods available including a silicone self fusing stretch / rescue tape that would have also worked, the contractor who hired me wanted the clamp over the tape and the management company chose not to shut down the system to do the repair. even the 2 regulators were replaced without a shut down.

    liability is a hugh factor when working in this environment. can you imagine turning off the water, draining down and restarting it without any of the places open to verify that nothing is running or open. it's not uncommon to have a ballcock fail when you shut off and refill. especially when the system would be full of air in the large bore pipe that runs several hundred feet in 2 directions. a parking structure with over 18' tall ceilings is not a small place. don't know about your liability insurance, but fortunately mine has never had to be used.

    glad this thread is what brought you into the mainstream of the forum.

    rick.

    Leave a comment:


  • CCP
    replied
    Re: "The Great Propress debate"

    Long time lurker first time poster. ( I think)


    I always enjoyed reading your post Rick and agreed with a lot of what you have said in the past but this is ridicules.


    Have fixed many pipes just like this in the past and patching is not in my tool bag and this is what this is “A Patch”.



    Freeze kit and prefab the repair pieces is all that is need to repair and not patch. Another thing is when talking to building manager I would price him on insulating pipe, especially where the clevises are and put a saddle under them. I would also recommend to them if they have another leak to also schedule putting in a few selective isolation valves throughout the area for future.


    I believe with new easier tools and techniques we all tend to get one track minded and think this is the only solution and forgetting these type repairs have been taking place for over a half century before propress was even thought about.


    I have to give you an F for fail on the repair and an A on the patch for using a commercial clamp.


    As far as the propress debate I can go along with its use in some situations in service repairs on cold lateral lines but never in new construction. That’s just me everyone else should do what they want it’s their business and their customers.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gettinit
    replied
    Re: "The Great Propress debate"

    Tyco is another.

    Leave a comment:


  • stolen
    replied
    Re: "The Great Propress debate"

    Not sure why its so hush hush. Looks like a Smith Blair clamp.

    We have used simmer of these, but only on larger diameter pipe. Not pipe to fitting

    Leave a comment:


  • Flux
    replied
    Re: "The Great Propress debate"

    Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
    check your mail.

    rick.
    I got it..thanks Rick.

    Leave a comment:


  • PLUMBER RICK
    replied
    Re: "The Great Propress debate"

    check your mail.

    rick.

    Leave a comment:


  • Flux
    replied
    Re: "The Great Propress debate"

    Rick, care to share who the manufacture is?

    I've never seen a clamp like that before, and that is something I could definitely use in the 1 high rise I take care of.

    Leave a comment:


  • PLUMBER RICK
    replied
    Re: "The Great Propress debate"

    a cell phone camera from far away will add years to ones look.

    my new phone i'm eyeing has 2 forward cameras and a rear facing. not sure if the 3d will show up on a monitor.

    is 49 considered old today?

    rick.

    Leave a comment:


  • Don the plumber
    replied
    Re: "The Great Propress debate"

    Rick, I thought you said you worked alone. Who is that old guy you sent up the ladder? Nice clamp by the way.

    Leave a comment:


  • PLUMBER RICK
    replied
    Re: "The Great Propress debate"

    Originally posted by Gettinit View Post
    If the leak is in the solder joint it is a matter of time before the water etches a path beyond the rubber. This is a time bomb. The only saving grace for your warranty will be it is a slow drip rather than a steady stream. If it were a pin hole in the copper that would be a different story.
    these are commercial clamps from a manufacturer that supplies this style among hundreds of different styles around the world. the clamp is specifically designed for the slight offset of the fitting and joint. the smaller sizes have a .40'' and the larger allow .80'' offsets. the waffle grid pattern and full circle encasement is the trick to their success remember that the original leak was less than 2 drips a minute. even if it was a full blown spray or a chunk of pipe missing they are rated for 350# of pressure. they are a permanent repair and not a temporary fix.

    i have used them since we discovered them back in 1984 on a new hotel with 6'' joints that were starting to fail. try shutting down a large hotel and replacing 6'' fittings in a drywalled wood framed ceiling without turning off the water or closing the hotel. wouldn't be too many guest pleased with no water.

    once again these are not you cheap hardware store off the shelf clamp. they are specifically designed for this application among others as they have hundreds of different sku's for just about any repair imaginable. they are the largest in the business and sold worldwide. because of all the different sizes, they are special order from my supplier. but they are available next day if necessary and even 24/7 if you're willing to pay.

    i've recommended them to another forum member with great results also for a hotel job.

    rick.

    Leave a comment:

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