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  • why?

    Why.

    I see all kinds of threads of how we hate hacks. How home depot sucks for selling parts to homeowners.

    Amongst things.

    So why. Why do we post "how to" posts in the ask the professional section? Why are so many of us volunteering our precious info to the world?

  • #2
    Re: why?

    You won't see me in there. My feeling is, I couldn't get the apprentices that worked with me for yrs to understand, or comprehend what was right, what was wrong, & then apply it to the job. How the hell are you gonna explain it to a know nothing stranger, in 5 minutes?
    And without seeing the job in question, all the advice, is derived from what the know nothing hack sees, or thinks he sees, & has described to you, what he thinks actually exists. Kind of like this lady who is in a wheel chair, & can't get down her basement anymore. The neighbor comes over, & sees water flowing from under the 75gal water heater. He tells her the water heater is leaking. I go out there, & find a pin hole in the sump pump check valve, spraying out very fine, & hitting the side of heater, & running down. Try to explain that in a "how to forum".

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: why?

      I stopped posting there a long time ago after a rant I had very similar to yours. I agree. Though the percentage if DIY'ers is probably small and an argument can be made that sometimes their diy projects go awry and lead to work for us, it makes no sense to me to be helping the situation. We are getting screwed by our state plumbing boards that now refuse to go after and prosecute unlicensed plumbing and it seems like no one is defending the profession anymore.
      sigpic

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      • #4
        Re: why?

        The sad part is there are some plumbers that need attention so bad they will actually give advice to someone site unseen / skill level unknown.

        Are you a homeowner wanting to do a natural gas or LP repeipe yourself? No problem, just drop into the "Ask the experts section" or if you live on the west coast and are a potential customer feel free to jump into the Professional Plumbers Forum and ask your questions directly (but make sure you list your profession as Engineer)...

        I hate to let the cat out of the bag but there is a (few) plumber(s) around here who are "paid" to stay active and keep the board active.

        --Any guesses who the plumbers are?

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: why?

          Originally posted by OkieBill View Post
          The sad part is there are some plumbers that need attention so bad they will actually give advice to someone site unseen / skill level unknown.

          Are you a homeowner wanting to do a natural gas or LP repeipe yourself? No problem, just drop into the "Ask the experts section" or if you live on the west coast and are a potential customer feel free to jump into the Professional Plumbers Forum and ask your questions directly (but make sure you list your profession as Engineer)...

          I hate to let the cat out of the bag but there is a (few) plumber(s) around here who are "paid" to stay active and keep the board active.

          --Any guesses who the plumbers are?
          really, show me 1 paycheck other that the the 1 i received along with the 4 others who entered the first roundup video contest and won a spot to ohio. the check was for a repayment of our travel and hotel just like the contest rules had posted and if i'm not mistaking possibly a $200 prize money. doesn't even come close to the money i spent for taking the week off, bringing joey and co sponsoring 2 other attendees/ forum members that would have otherwise not been able to afford the flight and hotel stay.

          show me 1 cent you've donated to other forum members. show me the $3500.00 you wrote a check for that went directly to the up and coming people getting into the trade. show me the thank you letter they sent you. show me anything other than your bitterness you have against helping others. show me the text you got today from one of your customers wishing you a happy fathers day.

          as far as blue can. i guarantee you his work is better than 99% of everyone out here. he takes his time and ask question. have you seen any of his finished projects that didn't look 100% professional.

          there have been discussions and debates in the past concerning helping others on the forum who post. this forum is sponsored by ridgid who sells worldwide to the trade and homeowner. they sponsor the forum to all that come here. not just pros and not just plumbers.

          tell me that you haven't learned 1 thing on this forum that you otherwise would not have been exposed to or learned otherwise. if not, why are you here?

          i could keep going and going, but wasting my time to respond to your make believe statements is a real waste of time.

          rick.
          phoebe it is

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: why?

            LOL - here's my (alternative) take on the matter.

            1. Not all homeowners/DIYers equate to hacks. They are two different things.

            2. I can say that anyone local to me giving me good advice on here will be guaranteed a recommendation from me to other I know - most who do not plumb and never will. Many are always frustrated looking for good plumbers and other tradespeople. Personal recommendation goes a long way. Those who have it are overloaded with work in my area. On most jobs everyone I know would rather wait for their trusted plumber than to hire someone new. I would go as far as to say I would actively promote such people in return for the help plus demonstrating good knowledge in help makes me comfortable in recommending such people.

            3. If plumbing is not working for you in terms of earning a living maybe a career change should be considered. No one is owed a living by society at large - if you cannot make the business work may it's time for a switch.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: why?

              I work out customers problems over the phone once in a while
              I know its going to help me in the long run

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: why?

                This is definitely a divisive issue and probably about evenly split among those that do not want advice given to DIY'ers and those that do or at the very least don't care or think it has much effect. Personally, I don't think it has much effect because the weekend warriors are going to forge ahead whether they get "professional advice" or advice from their brother in law. Neither do I think more than a hand full will bother with permits and inspections regardless of advice given. For me though, I just can't be bothered to try and decipher the layman descriptions or sort out the spaghetti like drawings they submit. Besides which, about half the time they argue with the licensed professional anyway because they either don't want to spend the money to do the job right or they don't understand what is being told to them, so for me...a waste of my time. Until the plumbing boards, local inspectors and the PHHC go on an all out campaign to stop non-permitted plumbing work nothing will change.

                I doubt if anyone is getting paid here either. If they were then I would be on that list
                sigpic

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: why?

                  Rick, It appears I have struck a nerve though you were not named specifically, While I admire your dedication to this site lets not leave folks with the wrong idea here...

                  Payment to be around here does not come in the form of a check (We both know that), How many Ridgid products have you seen in advance in the testing stages? How many Ridgid products are you sent to "Test"? I know of a couple because I've done it too... Your payment is in influence sir and you cultivate it by a self serving presence on this board.

                  Never had a problem with any of your philanthropy and I admire you for it, My only problem is the dispensing of dangerous advice to the inexperienced
                  How many folks over the years come to this site and call themselves engineers? Enough that its funny to see it and even funnier when they can't back it up when they are asked about it...


                  I've never been one to make make believe statements but I will call it like I see it

                  (If something is lost in translation please feel free to call me Mark may still have my contact info)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: why?

                    "3. If plumbing is not working for you in terms of earning a living maybe a career change should be considered. No one is owed a living by society at large - if you cannot make the business work may it's time for a switch."

                    Step outside of your artificial reality for a second as it is obvious you are not an engineer nor have you ever been in the trades, How is a hard working plumber losing a job because another master plumber is willing to talk someone through the job for free OK? It's not and it says nothing about either plumbers skill.

                    Every business person deserves the chance to succeed on a level playing field, The guys that are the most adamant about posting free advice forget what it was like to be a hungry young tradesmen, Tradesmen today start out crippled by the internet and the ability of anyone to come ask and master plumbers (who have already made their businesses) perfectly willing to dispense free advice irregardless of the costs.

                    I was that hungry young tradesmen, I will help that tradesmen not the other way around...


                    Blue-can if I was a gambling man and the fact that Rick is taking up for you would it be safe to say you are an Engineer at Seektech in San Diego??? Just a guess...
                    Last edited by OkieBill; 06-17-2012, 08:04 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: why?

                      Okie, what you say is common sense to some of us but unfortunately, not all of us and it never will be. For better or worse the trade is evolving. I doubt anyone would argue that the physical work has become much easier and I think the mental aspect has as well. I teach plumbing re-cert and It never ceases to amaze me at the number of licensed masters that don't understand wet venting or how to size water supply or figure duf's on a branch and yet, they have a license that says master on it. If I make the statement " vents do not cause drains to drain any faster or slower" I'll bet I get at least one and probably a lot more so called masters that will argue that. In fact, on another forum that argument reached the point where I finally had to mock up and film several demonstrations just to prove the point and still some wouldn't believe what their eyes saw. For me, the biggest change is the lack of respect that we now get where in the past we were held in high esteem for our knowlege, skills and outrageous bills. I blame everyone. I blame the PHCC for not standing up for the plumbing unions and the trade in general and selling out their interest to manufacturers and industry. I blame the code review boards and state plumbing boards for selling their interest to the lowest bidder and allowing slackening of the code to cater to industry and plumbers that no longer have the knowledge. I mostly blame us. Yes plumbers, you and me, the ones with the licenses that have competitively lowered our prices and standards and have let contractors and the public to tell us what we will charge. I blame manufacturing for pushing plastic crap and more plastic crap and starting the whole cheaper, faster, easier trend in the trade that has allowed any hack with a 3rd grade education and a sawzall to call himself a plumber.
                      sigpic

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                      • #12
                        Re: why?

                        Personally I wasn't even thinking about losing work for other plumbers, by giving out free advice. I just can't stand cheapskates, getting free advice. IMO, no matter what, those free advice hunters aren't gonna pay to have anything done professionally anyway. So I am glad they fix there own crap, I don't want it.
                        Last edited by Don the plumber; 06-17-2012, 09:11 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: why?

                          This entire "advice" argument is all wrong. The ONLY reason most give advice on these forums is because they feel the need to show superiority and feel the need to flaunt their expertise. WE all know it's true. Most of us are experts and enjoy talking about our trade and some of us are even educated LOL, it's just a natural thing and you see it on all professional forums.

                          I'm as guilty as the rest and I've posted on those forums too and most likely will again, lately not as much though. I don't have anything to prove to anyone especially to complete strangers so I'm not really obsessed with it like some are.

                          I haven't read this entire thread but I will say this, if someone is saying they give advice just because they want to help from the goodness of their heart I say bullshit. We're not stupid.............. but hey whatever floats your boat.

                          If you feel the need to give advice every day go for it, I don't care. 99% of the time the hack will get it wrong and call a pro anyway.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: why?

                            I give out free advice to my paying customers all the time, and I find that it's more beneficial to give back to the customers who provide a roof over my head and food on my table. IMO, it lets my customers know that I'm not going to nickel and dime them to death, and it's a nice gesture to take care of the people who take care of you.

                            1 free service call for tightening a packing nut for a new customer, led to a $7,500.00 job and referrals.

                            I have no problems giving free Plumbing advice here from time to time, but I won't engage in any Heating & A/C advice as a homeowner could make a bad situation worse. I've seen first hand the ramifications of unknowledgeable people touching gas & oil burners, and it wasn't a pretty sight seeing flames come out the barometric draft regulator, or everyone in the house getting sick, cause all of the air on a gas burner was shut off.

                            A homeowner has the right to do his own work in his own home as long as it's to code, and it's a privilege if they decide to pick up the phone and call one of us in.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: why?

                              read the last post on this thread, https://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/t41080/ quoted below,
                              AverageHomeowner

                              Member Occupation:IT
                              Location:Marin County, CA
                              Join Date:Jun 2009
                              Posts:56 Re: water pressure spikes overnight
                              UPDATE: I hired a plumber to connect a new Thermal Expansion Tank (TET) to my gas water heater. The daytime house pressure is about 60 psi, and previously my overnight pressure was spiking beyond 90 psi.

                              Following installation of the TET, I placed a water pressure gauge on my hose bib overnight and my pressure is now maxing out just below 65 psi. This means the TET is absorbing the pressure increase which is exactly what I hoped for. Nice to know that my fixtures no longer bear this increased pressure which should help to extend their life.

                              I love it when a plan comes together! Thanks again to contributors on this forum for their guidance!
                              Last edited by BHD; 06-17-2012, 10:56 PM.
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