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  • #31
    Re: Disturbing News

    What's funny, is guys like Rick (not picking on you just making an example) complain about csst being sold to anyone, but is fine telling anyone that asks how to solder, or set a toilet. If it takes a license to install it, why not require one to buy it?

    How about going to home depot and complaining because they sell products that we have to be licensed to install. Like pipe, or electrical stuff. Why does it start and stop with csst?

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Disturbing News

      Thanks to you guys, I now know where to find black pipe and CSST and will be redoing my stove, furnace and hot water heater.

      I have a few questions to ask you helpful professionals. Can I run the CSST outside the house, or through a chimney flue to get between floors? Is the black pipe easy to cut with a hacksaw? Also, can I just glue it to the fittings, I dont know how to thread it and it seems such a bother.

      I know some of you might be reluctant to help, but once I get your answers, I'll be a professional and I'll be able to help others too.

      (just kidding... not all DIYers are hacks.)

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Disturbing News

        Originally posted by hochwald View Post
        thanks to you guys, i now know where to find black pipe and csst and will be redoing my stove, furnace and hot water heater.

        I have a few questions to ask you helpful professionals. Can i run the csst outside the house, or through a chimney flue to get between floors? Is the black pipe easy to cut with a hacksaw? Also, can i just glue it to the fittings, i dont know how to thread it and it seems such a bother.

        I know some of you might be reluctant to help, but once i get your answers, i'll be a professional and i'll be able to help others too.

        (just kidding... Not all diyers are hacks.)
        yes to each and every question. Post pix, i'll sign it off. $500.00 cash
        I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Disturbing News

          Originally posted by stolen View Post
          What's funny, is guys like Rick (not picking on you just making an example) complain about csst being sold to anyone, but is fine telling anyone that asks how to solder, or set a toilet. If it takes a license to install it, why not require one to buy it?

          How about going to home depot and complaining because they sell products that we have to be licensed to install. Like pipe, or electrical stuff. Why does it start and stop with csst?
          csst requires a license to purchase and install it. very few other plumbing products have this restriction on it.

          p.s. it doesn't require a license to solder or install a toilet. a homeowner is entitled to do work at their own home. in fact a homeowner with no license can build or hire out subs to build their entire home in calif. the only stipulation is they have to live in it for 2 years if they are not a contractor before they can legally sell it. still requires permits that they can apply for and still has to meet the code and pass the same inspections as a licensed contractor.

          aren't you from calif. you should already know this if you know the codes. and if you didn't already know this, then you learned something today.

          rick.
          phoebe it is

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Disturbing News

            CSST does not require a license.

            CSST from some but not all manufactures requires a certification. Big difference


            See you learned something as well today Rick


            In all seriousness, I remember that thread Rick, You did give the management hell and they did start only selling to those that were certified.



            I noticed another Engineer
            Last edited by OkieBill; 06-21-2012, 10:07 PM.

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Disturbing News

              Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
              csst requires a license to purchase and install it. very few other plumbing products have this restriction on it.

              p.s. it doesn't require a license to solder or install a toilet. a homeowner is entitled to do work at their own home. in fact a homeowner with no license can build or hire out subs to build their entire home in calif. the only stipulation is they have to live in it for 2 years if they are not a contractor before they can legally sell it. still requires permits that they can apply for and still has to meet the code and pass the same inspections as a licensed contractor.

              aren't you from calif. you should already know this if you know the codes. and if you didn't already know this, then you learned something today.

              rick.
              It may be brand specific. I have never seen it written down anywhere that you needed a license...yet, but their certification class is usually a rule. I believe it went out of the window shortly there after it started. I think it was a sales ploy to get plumbers to use it, get established, and market all over the place as tried and true. I don't think it would have taken off if the certification wasn't required. Just my personal opinion. If you know specifically which requires a license please share as I think plumbers would use a brand that backed the industry professionals rather than the homeowner. If Gastite is only sold in HVAC supply houses I would buy from them if I had to run it as they will not sell to the HO.
              AllurePlumbing.com
              • leak detection
              • drain cleaning
              • utility locating
              • conductor fault locating
              • and other specialties.

              Greensboro NC, Winston-Salem NC, High Point NC, Thomasville NC, Kernersville NC

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              • #37
                Re: Disturbing News

                No Rick I don't live in Cali. But that's besides the point. Why is csst sales to the general public worse UN your eyes than selling them, a shower Valve? Sure csst can blow up. But, I can pipe your whole house for gas, in any piping material that has standard pipe thread adapters. And so can you obviously. So why is anything plumbing related, sold to anyone?

                Just because you see it as harmless doesn't mean it is. While my neighbor may have the generic right to do his own stuff, his rights SHOULD end, where the public connection begins. And we shouldn't be out here dispensing any advice. Week other than the advice stuff like should I use x brand. Advice is one thing. You guys on here are educating. its dangerous. Sure not to everyone. But neither are guns. Our drugs. Hell I can teach my neighbor how to choke someone out through text. But what I can't teach him through text is the experience to know when to let off. Like if you are choking a guy out on the ground on his back. Hard to know if he is out or not. And while it may be a split second, he could kill the guy.

                Or. I could just give him some free advice of..... Go learn from a teacher.

                I mean how would you feel if your free advice actually caused something to go wrong? Or what about the fact that your free advice is contributing to some plumber not getting that call that could very well have kept the doors open? Or worse the ripple effect of him not getting that call and someone needing a plumber couldn't reach him and decided to do it himself and their water heater blew up and killed a family?
                Last edited by stolen; 06-21-2012, 11:07 PM.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Disturbing News

                  Originally posted by OkieBill View Post
                  CSST does not require a license.

                  CSST from some but not all manufactures requires a certification. Big difference


                  See you learned something as well today Rick


                  In all seriousness, I remember that thread Rick, You did give the management hell and they did start only selling to those that were certified.



                  I noticed another Engineer
                  actually it does require a license/ certification. as i have all 3. gastite, tracpipe and wardflex. of course it's only good if the supply houses actually check for the license before they sell it. same with hdpe gas poly pipe and fusion rentals. it's a requirement for the product as each brand is specific for the fittings. even the 4th. brand at lowes requires a certification/ license, but are they actually checking for them? there is only 1 lowes within 15 miles and it's only 3 months old. they carry the csst and also have the training guide right next to it for sale. i thought it was free, until the cashier rang it up

                  i was only asked for my license 1 time and that was for the inspector who didn't have a clue about csst and i had to show him the installation manual and basically teach him the requirements. of course this was when it first came out and he wasn't trained in it yet.

                  rick.

                  see page 4 of this link. happens to be from nh masters own state. http://www.nh.gov/safety/divisions/f...SST7-16-09.pdf

                  but it's a universal type of requirement.
                  Last edited by PLUMBER RICK; 06-21-2012, 11:41 PM. Reason: link.
                  phoebe it is

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Disturbing News

                    stolen, have you ever looked on you tube and seen any diy videos? there is probably a video for anything and everything.of course most of them are probably not 100 accurate. there is no real questions and answers dialog going on. think that's safer than a forum of pros who can steer the person in the right direction.

                    when was the last time you paid $600 for a 1 hour warranty job. the way the industry is going, so called plumbers trying to get rich overnight, is the reason why there are more people trying to do it themselves. do you really think the general public can afford the rates that a lot of the n companies are charging. it's no wonder why all the home centers are busy. the most profitable home depot in the country is 10 minutes from home. it's also home to one of the highest real estate markets in the country. both the homeowner, handyman and contractor buy from there. i've never seen a contractor telling a homeowner they can't do it themselves. usually they try to help and might even give them a card if they get into a bind. heck joey and i volunteer at our local hardware store every other sunday. i rarely give out my number. but i do give out plenty of professional advise.

                    here at least we can try to advise them right from wrong and safe from unsafe.

                    no one says you have to help everyone or anyone. but at the same time you don't have to keep trying to tell them to call a pro.

                    do you really think this is the only plumbing forum that dishes out advise. even your plumbers only forum dishes out advise. it's an open forum and anyone with a computer can read every word of it. pictures are only available to those that are logged in as members.

                    there are 100 times more lurkers than members. only the members can ask questions and get answers.

                    there is 1 other forum i visit once in a while. it's for sprinter owners. and in the 3 years i've been on it, i can't recall 1 instance where anyone from around the world would tell the other members to take it to the dealer or a mechanic without first trying to trouble shoot the symptoms. there are times when you have no choice as the vehicle is 90% computer and unless you have the computer to diagnose it, all you can do is ask for help. there are world class mechanics that are dishing out free advise on a daily basis. and if you don't think a vehicle can kill, then you've never watched the news.

                    tell me you don't work on your own car and ask for advise from a pro.

                    rick.
                    phoebe it is

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Disturbing News

                      Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                      actually it does require a license/ certification. as i have all 3. gastite, tracpipe and wardflex. of course it's only good if the supply houses actually check for the license before they sell it. same with hdpe gas poly pipe and fusion rentals. it's a requirement for the product as each brand is specific for the fittings. even the 4th. brand at lowes requires a certification/ license, but are they actually checking for them? there is only 1 lowes within 15 miles and it's only 3 months old. they carry the csst and also have the training guide right next to it for sale. i thought it was free, until the cashier rang it up

                      i was only asked for my license 1 time and that was for the inspector who didn't have a clue about csst and i had to show him the installation manual and basically teach him the requirements. of course this was when it first came out and he wasn't trained in it yet.

                      rick.

                      see page 4 of this link. happens to be from nh masters own state. http://www.nh.gov/safety/divisions/f...SST7-16-09.pdf

                      but it's a universal type of requirement.
                      I kind of got the impression a whole lot of people here are not interested in getting certified - presumable because you can buy the stuff without having to show anything. I signed up for the Gastite class a couple of years ago (or it may have been Wardflex) and the class got cancelled due to not enough attendees. The trainer used to come down from elsewhere for the class and only came if enough people signed up - if not you had to wait another month or more.

                      I eventually did not use CSST and so never went.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Disturbing News

                        I think it should be illegal for licensed tradesmen, IE plumbers and electricians, to give advice to anyone that is not licensed in that trade and to have their license suspended for one year for each infraction.
                        sigpic

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Disturbing News

                          Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                          I think it should be illegal for licensed tradesmen, IE plumbers and electricians, to give advice to anyone that is not licensed in that trade and to have their license suspended for one year for each infraction.
                          so a teacher who teaches their students a trade, knowing 99% of them will never be a professional tradesmen should be suspended from teaching too

                          how many students that have gone through your program are actually full time tradesmen?

                          how many are out and about doing work around the neighborhood without a license or supervision?

                          how many are under 18 and can't be held accountable for their actions?

                          pretty easy to play this game too.

                          rick.
                          phoebe it is

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Disturbing News

                            Welcome to my world, anyone can go buy a welding machine and go in to business with no training, or certifications.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Disturbing News

                              Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                              so a teacher who teaches their students a trade, knowing 99% of them will never be a professional tradesmen should be suspended from teaching too

                              how many students that have gone through your program are actually full time tradesmen?

                              how many are out and about doing work around the neighborhood without a license or supervision?

                              how many are under 18 and can't be held accountable for their actions?

                              pretty easy to play this game too.

                              rick.
                              The difference being they are doing it the correct way. What they do with the info is beyond his control. But they went through the proper channels to get it.

                              And not only is he more experienced, has more credentials, but is also recognized by the state, and the plumbing board to teach.

                              Difference being is you are not really as qualified to teach as he is. You are licensed to TRAIN. Not teach people how to do stuff online.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Disturbing News

                                Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                                I think it should be illegal for licensed tradesmen, IE plumbers and electricians, to give advice to anyone that is not licensed in that trade and to have their license suspended for one year for each infraction.
                                That is a little too harsh. With or without guidance it will be attempted if they have no money for a professional. Your way will not stop a homeowner from working, it will just make the situations that much worse. There are some aspects of our trade I will agree that the public shouldn't touch but that will need to be handled on a state level and stop sales to homeowners. The HVAC trade has that part locked down. When is enough enough?
                                AllurePlumbing.com
                                • leak detection
                                • drain cleaning
                                • utility locating
                                • conductor fault locating
                                • and other specialties.

                                Greensboro NC, Winston-Salem NC, High Point NC, Thomasville NC, Kernersville NC

                                Comment

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