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  • #31
    Re: Question for rick and co.

    basically you're correct, but we all know that the topics are all over the place and it really doesn't change the fact where they posted the question. if mark wanted to he could move it to the correct forum. either way we are all over the place with responses.

    rick.
    phoebe it is

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Question for rick and co.

      Rick, Where they post the question is the point...

      My point was that we could direct DIY'ers to the proper forum before bringing Help-a-hack into a pros forum where there is obviously some disagreement.

      I don't think I have ever gone into the ask the experts section and thrown stones at anyone for trying to help but I will throw them in this forum because this is not the place for it.

      I'm sure if someone mentioned it to Mark he would happily move a thread to its proper location though we can avoid this by simply exercising some self control and directing non-plumbing professionals to the right forum.


      My thought is that the Pro's who are against DIY'ers for whatever reason will be spared from the discussions if the forum rules are followed.

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Question for rick and co.

        you're correct in the fact that if everyone read the forum intros, then they would have a better idea of where to post.

        but that still doesn't stop the fact that people that oppose helping others will still hinder in their ability to get good information

        meaning it doesn't matter what forum a person post a question in. there are some that still oppose offering anything other than "call a pro" you know it and i know it.

        if that's the only forum section the pros read and respond to, then it will work. but i already know, it doesn't matter where the questions are asked, some will still make it uncomfortable for the poster to get a real answer.

        rick.
        phoebe it is

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Question for rick and co.

          I don't know about that. I never post on the diy threads and while I will try to convince pro's to follow I'm not going to thrash the issue there. Here however is open season as far as I am concerned.
          sigpic

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Question for rick and co.

            Seems like the guy with the "don't tread on me" flag is the one who believes least in the power of free markets.

            People / companies with the best skills thrive. The hacks will eventually go out of business or will not have as much.

            I've seen it at least a hundred times. I am watching it happen to two companies right now. Unlicensed, doing plumbing work, total hacks. When people start realizing they're hacks and that's why they're cheap they'll go out of business. Had one guy who runs his own unlicensed company apply for a job with me last week. He's a hack, told him sorry, but I find it a conflict of interest.

            State licensing is a joke. Have someone sign off on your hours, study for a test, pass and now your licensed. It would work better as a privatized accreditation.

            I realized that I can show my customers how much better my work and service is than most. I charge more for it. But you get what you pay for. Every time I had a client try someone cheaper, they end up coming back.

            As for the CSST at lowes, yeah thats a law suit waiting to happen. But then I hear all their employees giving out free advice all the time.

            Was in HD yesterday, guy wanted some gas pipe and was getting galvy, employee said you can't use that under ground, it will rust, you have to use the black iron, it has a protective tar coating. I immediatley stepped in and informed the customer and employee about the importance of 10 mil, and the fact that I usually use galvy, only black iron if its specd. The employee was butt hurt, asked me "So what are you a plumber kid?" "Yeah actually, I own Maui Plumbing" guy thought I was lying.
            Ray

            “Wealth is the product of man's capacity to think.”— Francisco d'Anconia
            Atlas Shrugged (Part 2, Chapter 2, Page 411)

            www.mauiplumbinginc.com

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Question for rick and co.

              I would like to side with NH's view because I appreciate everything he stands for. He makes me want to go back and relearn everything I forgot when I took my tests, way back, we're talking 1 marriage ago.
              However, that would make me the biggest hypocrite out there. I have used Youtube and the Internets to research lots of projects which are not in my field. Automotive, electrical, carpentry to name a few. I must be a hackitty-hack.
              As a libertarian, I am hesitant to tell someone he shouldn't do something.
              That being said, you can't shout fire in a crowded movie theater, and you shouldn't mess with your gas lines or heating equipment if you are not licensed due to the fact you can endager others. Same goes for potable water and drainage to a lesser degree.
              Is there really something wrong with wanting a challenge to do a project you are not employed in? To do research, ask pros, and do the best job you can, and have it inspected by your peers? In which trades is this acceptable? Assuming you don't have ten thumbs.
              I understand the need to protect the trade, but where do we draw the line? At the fixture stops, and the fixture trap?
              BTW, the help-a-hack comment was the funniest thing I heard all day...
              Last edited by NYC LMP; 06-28-2012, 04:34 PM. Reason: add

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              • #37
                Re: Question for rick and co.

                Here's the difference. With most of the other trades, a mistake is not necessarily going to endanger the general public. The whole reason why we license plumbers is because of the potential for the uneducated and unskilled to do great harm to more than just themselves or their own property.
                sigpic

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Question for rick and co.

                  The EPA stepped in several years ago and made it to where a plumber couldn't do well work....at least around here. Now you have to take a special class to have the right to work on wells to an extent. I believe it is a $10-$15000 fine if you get caught without the card. Why? Because people died due to well contamination from a different house on the same well. The law around here is clear for profiting while plumbing. If you interrupt the flow of water, you need to be licensed. This means they can change aerators, shower heads, and the like. I don't think I can think of anything one can do on the waste/vent side of things. There are many lines already drawn. Homeowners and contractors lie and break the law all the time by not getting jobs inspected. People have died. Most of the problems are due to not wanting to spend the money on an inspection.

                  A lot could be done by enforcing permits somehow. Maybe every water heater sold needs to have the billing info and installed address info sent in to inspections to get the paperwork started on the permits? When people start losing their shirts on underbid shoddy work and see that it really does cost that much they will be more inclined to spend their money on the pro. Permit fees would eat them alive by themselves if they keep getting it wrong on just one job.
                  AllurePlumbing.com
                  • leak detection
                  • drain cleaning
                  • utility locating
                  • conductor fault locating
                  • and other specialties.

                  Greensboro NC, Winston-Salem NC, High Point NC, Thomasville NC, Kernersville NC

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Question for rick and co.

                    Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                    Here's the difference. With most of the other trades, a mistake is not necessarily going to endanger the general public. The whole reason why we license plumbers is because of the potential for the uneducated and unskilled to do great harm to more than just themselves or their own property.
                    You teach and probably know how to post videos and I am sure you teach about backflows....have any on the disasters of cross contamination showing the need for backflow protection?

                    I mean, it is only one small part of this argument that not many homeowners know about like the dangers of gas.
                    AllurePlumbing.com
                    • leak detection
                    • drain cleaning
                    • utility locating
                    • conductor fault locating
                    • and other specialties.

                    Greensboro NC, Winston-Salem NC, High Point NC, Thomasville NC, Kernersville NC

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Question for rick and co.

                      The case of cross connection (youtube)

                      Stick with it, it gets good...

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Question for rick and co.

                        NH and Gettinit: where should the line be drawn with DIY's? Faucet, ballcock, wc, sink, shower body?

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Question for rick and co.

                          I just wonder how many folks here change their own oil, their own air filter, or their own brakes.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Question for rick and co.

                            Going by the law as it is now for their primary residence? If that's the case as long as they get permits for water heaters and remodels (altering system) I suppose anything else is fair game. No venting, gas, oil or any other combustible's. No well work as it could effect many families. I guess with this scenario I suppose if it can cause death, there is the line. A poorly done job could be disastrous no matter what anybody does when it comes to water or sewage.

                            If not their primary residence they are not allowed to do anything in the trades by law. Well, I take that back, they can do general construction but there are a lot of limits/stipulations aside from price of the entire job. Illegal is illegal.

                            All of this is based solely on NC laws/rules but I would assume they are similar elsewhere. If there is a potential for cross contamination I would also be apposed to them doing the job.
                            AllurePlumbing.com
                            • leak detection
                            • drain cleaning
                            • utility locating
                            • conductor fault locating
                            • and other specialties.

                            Greensboro NC, Winston-Salem NC, High Point NC, Thomasville NC, Kernersville NC

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Question for rick and co.

                              Originally posted by bml View Post
                              I just wonder how many folks here change their own oil, their own air filter, or their own brakes.
                              I change my own oil and properly dispose of it. If there is a leak, it goes to the mechanic. There is nothing wrong with changing a filter...as long as it is not a special case where the life of the individual is at stake. I will not change my brakes.

                              Odd thing here, to change out your HVAC system or either half of a split system you need a license. Move ductwork, say from one wall to the adjacent wall, license. Repair anything else, no license. To buy refrigerant you do need a certification card for the application. Problem for DIY, they will not sell to you at the supply houses.
                              AllurePlumbing.com
                              • leak detection
                              • drain cleaning
                              • utility locating
                              • conductor fault locating
                              • and other specialties.

                              Greensboro NC, Winston-Salem NC, High Point NC, Thomasville NC, Kernersville NC

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Question for rick and co.

                                Just found this thread today. Gettinit: They really hooked an icemaker to a gasline? Oh my. Even before I became a plumber and was a hardcore DIYer, I did pay a pro to do gaswork in my condo. The thought of some people working on gaslines could cause sleepless nights. (Unless you're a firefighter; you might be called out when the icemaker calls for "water")

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