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Checking Soldered Joints

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  • #31
    Re: Checking Soldered Joints

    Originally posted by Scott K View Post
    where you pump up the water pipe to 200 PSI for the inspector to pass (with water)
    This must be just for copper? Most pex products are only rated to about 150psi @ 70F.
    You will never expand your mind, if you do not challenge your beliefs.

    By the reading of this post, you acknowledge and agree that the poster shall not be responsible or liable, directly or indirectly, for any damage or loss caused or alleged to be caused by or in connection with use of or reliance on any content contained herein.

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    • #32
      Re: Checking Soldered Joints

      why do you need to test so high .
      the working pressure of a boiler 10 to 20 lbs and the relief valve is set for 32 lbs. a copper tube boiler for domestic water or for swimming pools the pressure is a lot higher .

      even a copper boiler should not be tested more then 150.

      when i test my cast iron boilers i plug off the relief valve and then test piping and all at 1 1/2 times the working pressure .

      that's my 2 cents
      Charlie

      My seek the peek fundraiser page
      http://observatory.mountwashington.o...nal&fr_id=1040


      http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/conditions.php

      new work pictures 12/09
      http://public.fotki.com/hvachawk/

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      • #33
        Re: Checking Soldered Joints

        Originally posted by Hondahead View Post
        This must be just for copper? Most pex products are only rated to about 150psi @ 70F.
        IT's 200 PSI for all domestic water lines i.e. potable water that is supplied to a house for drinking/bathing/crapping purposes - this is the rough in water test.

        Anything with equipment that could be damaged or a relief valve that could go off never sees a 200 PSI test (including hot water tanks), just normal operating pressure. This 200 PSI test is for anything piping wise in the walls, as you can't see leaks behind the walls. Anything outside of the walls, if it leaks, will be seen and can be repaired. So you ask - why 200 PSI? I say "WHY NOT?"

        If your water lines hold a 200 PSI test then you can go home at night and soundly sleep as a plumbing contrator knowing that you won't have any issues with leaking in behind walls (unless of course someone hits it with a nail or something like that). The other thing is with a 200 PSI water test - you leave our system pumped up until you go to do finishing. Then you usually drain it through a laundry box (albeit slowly/carefully). And you know for a fact that if a drywaller hits one of your water lines with a screw, he's gonna know darn sure what he hit make no mistake (why you leave it pumped up - so you can backcharge accordingly).

        This 200 PSI test is standard for inspectors where I live even though it is not described in our codes, whether you're talking about underground Ductile Iron lines coming into the building (the water service) or any water distrubtion lines (pex, copper, kitec, or other) in the place that are part of the rough in. You usually do the test through a laundry tray so you can tie the hot and cold together for the test.

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        • #34
          Re: Checking Soldered Joints

          i don't have the data to back me up [ i will look for it ] but if you put to much pressure on a pipe that you will put some stress on a fitting and will cause a leak now or down the road .

          i have had a copper fitting with just flux hold 60 to 80 pounds water pressure, figure that one out .
          Charlie

          My seek the peek fundraiser page
          http://observatory.mountwashington.o...nal&fr_id=1040


          http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/conditions.php

          new work pictures 12/09
          http://public.fotki.com/hvachawk/

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          • #35
            Re: Checking Soldered Joints

            Originally posted by HVAC HAWK View Post
            i don't have the data to back me up [ i will look for it ] but if you put to much pressure on a pipe that you will put some stress on a fitting and will cause a leak now or down the road .

            i have had a copper fitting with just flux hold 60 to 80 pounds water pressure, figure that one out .


            not with the new flux

            when propress first came out here to the usa, there were plumbers that forgot to crimp a joint and it would hold as long as there was no movement beyound the joint depth. typically 3/4''- 1.5''. the joint would not leak since the oring made the seal. problem was the fitting could pull out and you would have a flood down the road

            for the last couple of years the fittings have come with a small nick built into the fitting next to the oring. this will now cause a small leak if not crimped. all you have to do is make sure the fitting is pushed in all the way and crimp. no need to shut or drain the system

            rick.
            phoebe it is

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            • #36
              Re: Checking Soldered Joints

              Originally posted by HVAC HAWK View Post
              i don't have the data to back me up [ i will look for it ] but if you put to much pressure on a pipe that you will put some stress on a fitting and will cause a leak now or down the road .

              i have had a copper fitting with just flux hold 60 to 80 pounds water pressure, figure that one out .
              The only thing I know if in regard to what you have posted is if you're doing a drainage test on Cast Iron with Mechanical Joints. When you fill it up with water you shouldn't leave it filled too long as the head/pressure on the joints isn't good for the neoprene gaskets in behind the Stainless steel bands for too long. That's why in our code it specs 10 feet of head for 15 minutes is all it has to hold.

              I hardly doubt that 200 PSI is enough to make a difference in the long run considering it's not held for very long when you consider the age of the piping system. When you consider the consequences of doing a mild test of 60-80 PSI and the joint holding and then one day mysteriously leaking behind a wall and the costs associated with it? Think about it this way. Which method covers your arse, as a Plumber more? Doing the 200 PSI test and finding the leaks righta way, or doing a 60-80 PSI test and it leaking down the road? Even if a 200 PSI test compromises the life of the system to one extent or another, you know that when you are finished plumbing it, it won't leak, and it'll last long enough that any leaks down the road can be construed as an aged system in need of a repipe - not something you did or could be faulted for. Especially when you consider that it's the inspectors, where I live, who require a 200 PSI test. Therefore it's THEIR fault, not you, the Plumber/Plumber contractor. They are the ones who ask me to do it, for their peace of mind, as they are responsible at the end of the day for ensuring compliance with plumbing codes and standards and things like that. The only thing my plumbing company is requried to do is provide a 2 year warranty.Now I'm not suggesting just squeezing by the 2 year warranty as you should strive to do quality work and I would hope my work lasts a very long time.

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              • #37
                Re: Checking Soldered Joints

                Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                [/B]not with the new flux


                in pa we can still use the older flux [ for now ]

                they sell the water base stuff but i use the other
                Charlie

                My seek the peek fundraiser page
                http://observatory.mountwashington.o...nal&fr_id=1040


                http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/conditions.php

                new work pictures 12/09
                http://public.fotki.com/hvachawk/

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Checking Soldered Joints

                  Scott K,

                  Rest easy,one of the largest production plumbing contractors in our area uses his hydro-static pump, which actualy has a thumping action,to crank his rough plumbing copper(before anything mechanical or otherwise is connected to the system) to 350 lbs.

                  He has done this on over 4000 homes with no evidence of damaging pipe or fittings.

                  The reason is a mostly because the big money developer usually doesn't provide water to the building until he absolutely has to.

                  The corrosive flux is a pain for sure.And his employee's try and test when feasable.But leave to some other trade to open a valve or put a nail or screw into the pipe to drop the pressure.

                  On my stuff I use CO-2 to push 300 with water in the system then go around the system beating the fittings & pipe.Not like crazy, but you know what I mean.I'm gonna do all I can to get this flux to leak in the rough so I don't have to remodel my customers 65,000 dollar kitchen.

                  2 year warranty,your employer is lucky,down here the contractors are liable for 10 years.

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                  • #39
                    Re: Checking Soldered Joints

                    Excess flux washes out of hot water lines. It's like vaseline. It will stay in cold lines forever, unless you can backflush hot water thru them.

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                    • #40
                      Re: Checking Soldered Joints

                      On the subject of fluxes, any of you guys use the tinning fluxes like Oatey #95 as your regular flux?

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                      • #41
                        Re: Checking Soldered Joints

                        Originally posted by Newman View Post
                        On the subject of fluxes, any of you guys use the tinning fluxes like Oatey #95 as your regular flux?
                        no,no, & no.

                        everflux

                        rick.
                        phoebe it is

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                        • #42
                          Re: Checking Soldered Joints

                          No-Korrode winter formula, year round. One contractor I worked for used the tinning flux, I never cottoned to it.

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                          • #43
                            Re: Checking Soldered Joints

                            today i had to solder a couple of awkward joints. only because they were really close to an existing soldered joint i didnt want to disturb.

                            definitely a different technique involved and i held my breath turning the water back on. No problems, but for someone who brazes everything they can i found a new appreciation for the old solder. Who was i to doubt a tried and true method.

                            i guess it comes down to familiarity more than anything.

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