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Measuring, cutting & grooving steel pipe

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  • Measuring, cutting & grooving steel pipe

    I am doing a Fire Sprinkler install with a not so savvy plumber and currently piping three flow control valves off a 4" main. Its a very tight space and I would like to know whether there is a specific takeout for grooving pipe. I only started grooved piping 4mths ago. e.g If the face to face measurement between two 3" fittings is 10", how much do i compensate for the grooves on either end of this 10" initial measurement so that I can get a good fit between the fittings. Since everything will be exposed I would like make certain than those three branches are installed plumb and square. Thanks

  • #2
    Re: Measuring, cutting & grooving steel pipe

    Originally posted by jaggy View Post
    I am doing a Fire Sprinkler install with a not so savvy plumber
    I think this is your first problem!! There is more to fire sprinklers than just owning a 300 machine, a groover and a couple of pipe wrenches.

    Not real clearon what you are asking, but sounds like you are wanting to know the take out measures for grooved fittings. The take out measure for grooved fittings are end to center and nothing more, the pipe and the fitting butt together.

    Good luck!

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Measuring, cutting & grooving steel pipe

      Firstly I am not here to prove that I have a machine and tools. I am asking a question about something that i hoped a professional would respond to if he/she was willing to help. The situation is " I have a space between two 3" 90 degree grooved elbows of 10" face to face measurement and i wish to connect the two elbows." I had initially thought that cutting a piece of pipe 10 " then grooving the other end would be the correct procedure. I found out last week that this was not the case. I am now thinking that if I need to connect the two elbows with a face to face measurement of 10", then I would need to cut that piece of 3" pipe 10 1/2" with the hope that after grooving the other end my finish measurement would be approx 10" long. Hope i made it clear enough. ****if there is such a known takeout, then is it the same for 2", 3", 4" pipe? Thanks

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Measuring, cutting & grooving steel pipe

        If you have two 90's looking at each other and the measure is 10" between them, then cut your pipe 10" and groove both ends.

        Not sure why you would want to cut the pipe longer!?!?

        http://www.reliablesprinkler.com/pdf...20Fittings.pdf

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Measuring, cutting & grooving steel pipe

          Thank you very much. I now remember that the machine was being used by other crews and there is a possibility that the groove depth was tampered with thereby resulting in a deeper than usual depth, and also deformed the end of that pipe. It was the last connection for the day and so we all packed up without trying to figure why the measurement of the said pipe was shorter than previously measured. I greatly appreciate your patience and will do more literature concerning groove pipe.

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          • #6
            Re: Measuring, cutting & grooving steel pipe

            The deformed end was most likely caused by the free end of the pipe being grooved was raised above the center line of the groover, resulting in a "fish mouthed" or flared end. Do not try to level the pipe up with a pipe jack, it needs to be parallel to the center line of the goover.

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            • #7
              Re: Measuring, cutting & grooving steel pipe

              On a short piece, less than 3 or 4 feet, the pressure from the groover will lift the pipe.
              This will result in the fish mouth that G3 spoke of.

              There are various ways to compensate for this, if you have been running vic pipe for 4
              months you have probably figured this out by now.

              Around here you'd be working for a Sprinkler Fitter, not a Plumber,
              unless said plumber also holds a sprinkler installers license.
              Last edited by Bob D.; 01-13-2013, 07:45 PM.
              ---------------
              Light is faster than sound. That's why some people seem really bright until you hear them speak.
              ---------------
              “If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a plumber.” - Albert Einstein
              ---------
              "Its a table saw.... Do you know where your fingers are?"
              ---------
              sigpic http://www.helmetstohardhats.com/

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              • #8
                Re: Measuring, cutting & grooving steel pipe

                Wait till you do victolic copper that's the fun stuff.. or even galvanized for a dry system.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Measuring, cutting & grooving steel pipe

                  Originally posted by seanny deep View Post
                  Wait till you do victolic copper that's the fun stuff.. or even galvanized for a dry system.
                  Galvanized vic pipe is a PITA. Cakes up on the roller and it seemed to want to wander
                  more than black steel pipe. Cut grooving large bore (over 12") I found to be more of
                  a pain than anything. Those 24", 4 segment clamps are not fun to put together 40 feet
                  up in the air off a scissor lift or boom lift in the dead of winter.

                  Never had any problems with copper that I remember, but that was years ago with real,
                  virgin copper, not some of the recycled junk they pass off as copper now.

                  Did they ever develop a gasket that would hold up to steam? I remember one job where
                  we tried them but didn't hold up. Victaulic paid to replace all the gaskets which was the
                  agreement when they got us to try their new gasket. That was in the late 80s.
                  Last edited by Bob D.; 01-14-2013, 06:04 AM.
                  ---------------
                  Light is faster than sound. That's why some people seem really bright until you hear them speak.
                  ---------------
                  “If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a plumber.” - Albert Einstein
                  ---------
                  "Its a table saw.... Do you know where your fingers are?"
                  ---------
                  sigpic http://www.helmetstohardhats.com/

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Measuring, cutting & grooving steel pipe

                    I worked for almost a year as a sphinkter splitters helper during the first two years of my apprenticeship the galvanized was a royal pain it was all 4" and 2" that I did. The smaller lines were all blazemaster cpvc. I actually enjoyed it for the most part. He offered to sign me up and steal me from the plumbing division. I decided to stick with plumbing the little bit of grooved copper I did was also all 2" and I found it hard to get used to mind you it was all short peices coming off a big hotspot heat exchanger on a geothermal system I helped with later in my apprenticeship. I know the company I used to work for did a large job at a local dam and had tons of leaks a victolic rep ended up getting called in and wouldn't warrenty the connections because they didn't use a victolic brand groover. " I believe they were using a ridgid" anyways the company tore every victolic fitting out and returned them to the wholesaler. That wholesaler now does not sell victolic. That's the story I was told bye there sprinkler fitter last time we talked?

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