Announcement Announcement Module
Collapse
No announcement yet.
NBC Plumber Sting in New Jersey Page Title Module
Move Remove Collapse
X
Conversation Detail Module
Collapse
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • NBC Plumber Sting in New Jersey

    Did you see the NBC sting on plumbers. It was a 50 gallon gas water heater in the basement. Judging by the gas valve the unit is at least 10 years old and in the basement. The bibb was turned on by so called Experts and left to drip. I know that there is a lot of fraud out there, but it seems like it was edited to create drama as usual. The reporter explains that the expert said the water heater had another 10-15 years of life. I call BS. While, I don't agree with trying to fool a customer, I need more information. How old was the unit exactly. What is the average life of heaters in the area? Here in north Texas, the average life of a water heater (any brand) in the attic is 8 years and in the garage is 10-12. I would have showed the customer that it was leaking, and then explained the options. I am sick and tired of "EXPERTS" that haven't touched a tool in the real world of plumbing for decades, explaining things. I am a Master plumber and work in the field every day, and I can tell you that their out things that I used to use in my business that are now JUNK. I used to change out water heaters in the 90's that were lasting 25 years, but not since then.
    The national average life according to most manufacturers is 12 years. The rest of this story probably reads: After the plumbers that told the lady that everything was fine, the water heater leaked, floated a gas can over to the burner and blew the house up and killed everyone. How negligent are these plumbers today. All will be sued and stripped of licenses for not protecting the homeowners. Any Thoughts?
    "don't put that in your mouth, you don't know where it's been"

  • #2
    Re: NBC Plumber Sting in New Jersey

    Originally posted by Plumbingbyjay View Post
    Did you see the NBC sting on plumbers. It was a 50 gallon gas water heater in the basement. Judging by the gas valve the unit is at least 10 years old and in the basement. The bibb was turned on by so called Experts and left to drip. I know that there is a lot of fraud out there, but it seems like it was edited to create drama as usual. The reporter explains that the expert said the water heater had another 10-15 years of life. I call BS. While, I don't agree with trying to fool a customer, I need more information. How old was the unit exactly. What is the average life of heaters in the area? Here in north Texas, the average life of a water heater (any brand) in the attic is 8 years and in the garage is 10-12. I would have showed the customer that it was leaking, and then explained the options. I am sick and tired of "EXPERTS" that haven't touched a tool in the real world of plumbing for decades, explaining things. I am a Master plumber and work in the field every day, and I can tell you that their out things that I used to use in my business that are now JUNK. I used to change out water heaters in the 90's that were lasting 25 years, but not since then.
    The national average life according to most manufacturers is 12 years. The rest of this story probably reads: After the plumbers that told the lady that everything was fine, the water heater leaked, floated a gas can over to the burner and blew the house up and killed everyone. How negligent are these plumbers today. All will be sued and stripped of licenses for not protecting the homeowners. Any Thoughts?
    I saw it this morning, and NBC contradicted itself.

    First they said the majority were honest, and then focused in on the bad apples.

    When the program was over, it was now 50% of the contractors were dishonest....really NBC?

    The other thing I missed was...what part of New Jersey were they talking about? Forget the dishonesty for a second....the price of water heaters are much higher in Jersey (especially close to New York City), so making these Plumbers out to be crooks on that alone ticked me off.

    The guys who were dishonest in that program should lose their license.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: NBC Plumber Sting in New Jersey

      10 to 15 years of life? really? Just in my county, depending on where you live its 1.5 to 20 years. Some of the poor quality island water(private authority) and inland wells don't last much more than 1.5 years here. The typical water heater on the county's water system lasts 6 to 10 years. Out on the high end islands, with the extra water treatment, are getting 20 years.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: NBC Plumber Sting in New Jersey

        Originally posted by Plumbingbyjay View Post
        Did you see the NBC sting on plumbers. It was a 50 gallon gas water heater in the basement. Judging by the gas valve the unit is at least 10 years old and in the basement. The bibb was turned on by so called Experts and left to drip. I know that there is a lot of fraud out there, but it seems like it was edited to create drama as usual. The reporter explains that the expert said the water heater had another 10-15 years of life. I call BS. While, I don't agree with trying to fool a customer, I need more information. How old was the unit exactly. What is the average life of heaters in the area? Here in north Texas, the average life of a water heater (any brand) in the attic is 8 years and in the garage is 10-12. I would have showed the customer that it was leaking, and then explained the options. I am sick and tired of "EXPERTS" that haven't touched a tool in the real world of plumbing for decades, explaining things. I am a Master plumber and work in the field every day, and I can tell you that their out things that I used to use in my business that are now JUNK. I used to change out water heaters in the 90's that were lasting 25 years, but not since then.
        The national average life according to most manufacturers is 12 years. The rest of this story probably reads: After the plumbers that told the lady that everything was fine, the water heater leaked, floated a gas can over to the burner and blew the house up and killed everyone. How negligent are these plumbers today. All will be sued and stripped of licenses for not protecting the homeowners. Any Thoughts?

        I haven't seen the show
        Are you saying the crook is the one that just turned off the valve or replaced it ?

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: NBC Plumber Sting in New Jersey

          Rossen Reports: Are plumbers charging you unnecessarily? - Video on TODAY.com Here is the link to the video. It's 7 minutes.

          Years ago my uncle wittnessed a plumber drilling a hole in a heater from next door. He notified the homeowner and confronted the plumber. They replaced the heater for free. Or he would have persued it in court.

          Rick.
          phoebe it is

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: NBC Plumber Sting in New Jersey

            I watched the video.

            I would have fixed the leak, probably at a reduced cost of a normal call. I also would have noted the age of the unit, the kind and hardness of the water, and overall condition. I might have made a replacement suggestion based on that information.

            I did also notice that the relief pipe was corroded at the base and the floor paint missing and concrete pitted. It looks like the system leaks because there is no or a failed expansion tank. The house may need a reducing valve. I saw in the video some corrosion on the base of the tank, though this may be from condensation during firing.

            None of the plumbers, including the 3 'experts' did any kind of in depth inspection of the unit. The customer did not get any bang for the service buck. To point a flashlight at it and expect, what... a flash of brilliance? ... is just a joke.
            ~~

            ... it was plumbed by Ray Charles and his helper Stevie Wonder

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: NBC Plumber Sting in New Jersey

              If i went there because of water dripping, and it was the drain ! i just might want to change it because no home owner is going to turn it on for fun
              If that valve blew off in the next week or month you can bet your a$$ who the insurance company is going to be looking for

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: NBC Plumber Sting in New Jersey

                Looks like north jersey to me. I did not recognize the guy who is the head of the LMP Association that did the first assessment of the water heater and said it was fine, he may be from the north jersey chapter. North and south jersey are very different places, they're almost two states with the same corrupt government.

                Anyway, what is the cause of all that discoloration on the floor right below the relief valve? Has the T&P valve been popping off occasionally? If yes then maybe its time for a new valve. Two different people said they felt some dampness on the bottom side of the tank, but neither (from what we saw in the video) investigated any further. Maybe there is a tank leak. As someone else said how old is that WH now? If we went back and looked we could probably find some clues as to the age of the house based on construction techniques used or there may be something else in the video to date the house. You would think this would have been something they would have stated right up front, that the WH is 2 or 3 years old (or whatever it is), told us the model and its replacement cost and what their 3 'experts' estimated a couple different repair scenarios to be such as total replacement, replace leaking drain valve, replace T&P valve and drain valve and flush out the tank, etc. But we didn't get that, we got a story that was the most appealing to viewers, and viewers (who increase ratings) want to see the guy they most often think is ripping them off get whats coming to him. If there happens to be some truth in their report, that's good, but I am not convinced that the video is always edited with the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth in the TV producers mind.

                I think the prices are high that were given for a total replacement for MY area, but in north jersey, only a few miles from downtown NYC where NBC studios are, they would be in line. I also don't see the NBC video crew going any further than they had to to film a story (gotta keep production costs down). Everyone up at that end of the state and NYC and the surrounding counties thinks that all of NJ is just like Ft. Lee or Newark, or Jersey City...crowded, expensive, and basically a burb of NYC. But in reality when you get south of Trenton it is very different. Near Philly the population density goes up again and so do prices but no where near what they are near NYC. Where I am most counties are over 70% farm land and the average town has a couple thousand people, most of the southern counties have less than 100,000 people, very different from up north. I worked in Westchester County, NY for a couple years so have a taste of what its like up there. I also visited many places years ago in the 70s while driving truck in North Jersey and NY so saw some of that too. It's like a different country.

                At any rate if those two plumbers suspected that the tank was leaking they did not support their recommendation for replacement very well. They would have done better to show the customer what they saw as the problem(s) and given options on how to proceed.

                Going only by what we know from the video I would have told the HO that I found the drain valve was not closed tightly. I would have asked if the WH has even been flushed out either by the HO or a plumber and asked if that had been done recently as that would be the most likely cause for the leak. Or, do the kids play in the basement and is it possible they inadvertently bumped the valve while playing or were messing around with it? If I put my hand under the tank and felt "some dampness" as a couple of the plumbers said then I think I would have wanted to investigate further before making a recommendation to replace the WH. If I was the HO I would have asked what is wrong with this WH that it can't be fixed. But NBC didn't want a semi-knowledgeable HO , they wanted what appeared to be a total mark who would be easily fooled.

                So a video full of half truths from my perspective. Maybe all those 'bad' plumbers as they have now been labeled by this video are something less than reputable, but I don't think NBC presented enough evidence to make their case beyond a shadow of a doubt.
                ---------------
                Light is faster than sound. That's why some people seem really bright until you hear them speak.
                ---------------
                “If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a plumber.” - Albert Einstein
                ---------
                "Its a table saw.... Do you know where your fingers are?"
                ---------
                sigpic http://www.helmetstohardhats.com/

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: NBC Plumber Sting in New Jersey

                  I downloaded the movie and watched it again. In addition I saw it's a sealed combustion tank with the sealing parts removed (you can see it when mr. hack shines his flashlight in). Also, mr. hack that started to drain the unit never turned off either the main gas valve or the gas supply stop

                  When mr. plumber near the end suggests the relief pipe is leaking and caused the corrosion, note the foot of the hot water tank, it's about rotted off. Of course the 'expert' from the licensing board says this is all BS. I wonder if mr. expert has seen his feet lately?

                  I'll post screen shots if I can get them...
                  ~~

                  ... it was plumbed by Ray Charles and his helper Stevie Wonder

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: NBC Plumber Sting in New Jersey

                    (click image to open larger)

                    A good view of the floor, pipe, and foot:

                    Attachment

                    The missing sealed combustion parts - the ignition wire, tubes, and thermocouple all go through the main hole, there are no gaskets:

                    Attachment

                    Attachment

                    These pictures alone are enough to at least file a case for removal of mr. licensing expert from his job. How can anyone let such a blatant violation pass?
                    Attached Files
                    ~~

                    ... it was plumbed by Ray Charles and his helper Stevie Wonder

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: NBC Plumber Sting in New Jersey

                      The real question is, why are you watching NBC?
                      26+6=1

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: NBC Plumber Sting in New Jersey

                        Originally posted by EJW1 View Post
                        The real question is, why are you watching NBC?
                        NBC - Nothing But Crap
                        ~~

                        ... it was plumbed by Ray Charles and his helper Stevie Wonder

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: NBC Plumber Sting in New Jersey

                          None of the 3 experts checked gas pressure either.

                          $1,900.00 is out of the ball park for my area, but not North Jersey.

                          It's common knowledge in these parts that North Jersey/ NYC are easily double if not triple the price we are.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: NBC Plumber Sting in New Jersey

                            Was at a trade show on Friday and some of the Bradfordwhite Reps where there. I asked what is the national average life? Answer was 12 on average, but really depends on the location. They were unaware of NBC using their brand. I told them they should sue them. They are representing the product falsely. I think as perviously stated, the plumbing experts have not been in the field in a while. I remember when water heaters used to last longer. Dishwashers, Refrigerators, etc. used to last 20-30 years. I also remember just being able to change washers in outside hydrants too, and a flapper would fix a toilet for the next 10 years. We are a throw away society, not necessarily by choice. I agree with most on here, that they would have explained to the customer the options first. I think those parts were cleverly edited out, as seen in the Choppy editing.
                            "don't put that in your mouth, you don't know where it's been"

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: NBC Plumber Sting in New Jersey

                              Where do you see a sealed combustion chamber / fvir heater. All I see is an atmospheric heater.

                              Just a standard pilot, thermocouple and main gas burner.


                              Rick.
                              Attached Files
                              Last edited by PLUMBER RICK; 02-24-2013, 05:54 PM.
                              phoebe it is

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X