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  • #16
    Re: Eternal

    Originally posted by Dhal22 View Post
    I have grown to love the design of the Eternal water heater and have been installing them almost exclusively. All customers have been very very happy with their new heaters. Finally installed one in my house recently (it sat gathering dust awaiting a slow day). All I can say is 'wow'; the performance is awesome. Furthermore, I installed a Metlund pump in my kid's bathroom to speed up the delivery time and everybody is happy. I highly recommend the Eternal heater. I have sold 3 of them in the last week, awaiting a decision on a 4th.

    David
    Help us out downunder and post a picture if possible so we can compare notes on what we use downunder........................!!!!!

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Eternal

      Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
      was at my supply house today and actually had a conversation about this heater today with the knowledgeable counter guy. he warned me of issues with the eternal heater. funny it came up today with this thread.

      rick.
      You have got my attention Rick, care to share(genuine request even though it sounds sarcastic which it is not)

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Eternal

        Originally posted by Cleanmen2 View Post
        Help us out downunder and post a picture if possible so we can compare notes on what we use downunder........................!!!!!
        I second that motion

        Tony

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Eternal

          Originally posted by AFM View Post
          I second that motion

          Tony
          A picture of a tankless water heater? Or the Metlund pump?

          David

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Eternal

            Originally posted by Plumbingbyjay View Post
            All tankless have major problems. I worked on an eternal today. Here is my situation. I have 3 in a row that are supposed to talk to each other with a data cable. This is in a salon. They have been in for less than 2 years. Got a call Saturday "no hot water" they started using a stove to heat the water for clients. Had customer reset units 3 or 4 times. Nothing. Finally after many resets, the unit shifts Priorities from the one that had the problem. NO error code. The unit having the problem didn't throw a code, so the other two didn't come on. There is no simple way to have the customer switch units when it does this without going inside the unit and flipping dip switches. So, I talked to Eternal, and they say "Why did you set it up this way?, you should have put in a buffer tank, etc." I put it in the way they told me too. I have been through the courses, and am a FASST provider, etc. I have over 30 Eternals installed, 6 Takagi, 4 Navien, and have worked on Norritz, Rinnai, Bosch, and others. I have been back on ALL brands for something. Every time! the manufacturer blames the installers or suppliers, or local codes, or the water, or the power supply, or the gas supply, or the proper moon alignment. IT IS BS. The GAS saving calculations are inaccurate, and the warranties are a SCAM. Mark my word. Within the next 2 years, you will wake up one morning with no hot water, or it will be a Friday at 4:30 day before a Holiday, when your customers call you complaining about all the money they spent with you to have no hot water. As for Takagi and A.O. Smith. The can Kiss My Tanked Butt. Watch my video at Plumbing by Jay, INC. and see me work on a unit. Eternal started out with a 20 year warranty, and now it is a 15 year. These things were supposed to last 2.5 times the life of a tanked water heater, but I have lost over $50,000 while going back on warranty calls to fix Eternal CRAP. I stand behind my work, and am standing by a product that I thought was great. My prayer, is that every customer that I put a tankless in for; MOVES. Meanwhile, I have thousands of tanked water heaters, that are still cooking away. Sure, they will only last 8-12 years, but at least they have hot water. By the way, Let us know how consistent the temperature stays after it has been in for a 6 months.
            Good stuff P.J. Video was great as well.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Eternal

              ~~

              ... it was plumbed by Ray Charles and his helper Stevie Wonder

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Eternal



                Here are 3 of them in a row, but now they say that I need to add a Buffer tank. Talked to them today and they want a 4 port Storage Tank 80 gallon or larger with 1 1/2 pipe. I am not going to do this. I am going to add a 30 gallon electric water heater, but not hook up the electric, then use aquastats and pumps to allow the tank to be a buffer. These three were all data linked together, but don't work right.
                Last edited by Plumbingbyjay; 03-01-2013, 12:01 AM.
                "don't put that in your mouth, you don't know where it's been"

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Eternal

                  Originally posted by Plumbingbyjay View Post


                  Here are 3 of them in a row, but now they say that I need to add a Buffer tank. Talked to them today and they want a 4 port Storage Tank 80 gallon or larger with 1 1/2 pipe. I am not going to do this. I am going to add a 30 gallon electric water heater, but not hook up the electric, then use aquastats and pumps to allow the tank to be a buffer. These three were all data linked together, but don't work right.
                  Hard to tell but it doesn't look like its piped per their diagram on page 40

                  http://www.eternalwaterheater.com/pd...145_195_OM.pdf

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Eternal

                    Originally posted by Plumber Punky View Post
                    It looks like something out of Star Trek what has happened to plumbing has happened to everything in the last forty five years it has become complicated hot water heaters were just plain simple easy to install easy to operate and easy to repair they heated the water they did the job but now you have to have a degree just to touch them.
                    The same with a new car when I got my license in the 1960`s if you broke down you would just lift the bonnet and fix it now you look under the bonnet and your lost they call it progress I call it madness

                    Tony

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Eternal

                      Also, where in the venting specs does it say it is ok to use 2" piping?
                      Last edited by Plumber Punky; 03-01-2013, 08:18 AM.
                      ~~

                      ... it was plumbed by Ray Charles and his helper Stevie Wonder

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Eternal

                        We piped them like on page 41. Without the tank. We were told we didn't need that for this system. Also on Page 20, it says you can use 2" pvc. The frustrating part for me, is that we had a site visit from them and were told that it was a perfect install. Now we are being told something different. So, which is it. Am I Awesome? or Just another Hack?
                        "don't put that in your mouth, you don't know where it's been"

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Eternal

                          Originally posted by Plumbingbyjay View Post
                          Also on Page 20, it says you can use 2" pvc.
                          Maybe I'm blind or maybe just retarded could you please highlight that for me, I'm not seeing it (with the document linked to above). The only number '2' I see is a reference to the number of elbows in a termination.

                          Edit: I found another (more updated?) document referencing the same units on the Eternal web site. The newer document does now include 2" venting:

                          http://www.eternalwaterheater.com/pd...%207-19-12.pdf
                          Last edited by Plumber Punky; 03-01-2013, 09:41 AM.
                          ~~

                          ... it was plumbed by Ray Charles and his helper Stevie Wonder

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Eternal

                            Originally posted by Plumbingbyjay View Post


                            Here are 3 of them in a row, but now they say that I need to add a Buffer tank. Talked to them today and they want a 4 port Storage Tank 80 gallon or larger with 1 1/2 pipe. I am not going to do this. I am going to add a 30 gallon electric water heater, but not hook up the electric, then use aquastats and pumps to allow the tank to be a buffer. These three were all data linked together, but don't work right.
                            Gas line flex connectors big enough? What pressure did your manometer read while the units were running? The main gas line certainly looks big enough. I've switched residences to 2psi and regulated before after the original plumber told not to return as they were unable to solve the performance issues. Every time the manometer proved insufficient gas flow while underway (and other devices were running). I've installed Noritz in doubles before. Trying to remember the water piping setup. Just visited a residence last week that had a double Noritz NRc-111 install of mine from a few yrs ago. They look like the day I installed them. I did pipe them in 1".

                            David

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Eternal

                              Yes, We have more than enough gas. This is the only thing gas in the whole building. These are the larger gas flexes rated at 235,000 btu each. Full port Gas valve. The problems have been little stuff, like flow sensors, computer boards, pressure switches, thermistors, gas valves, etc. That stuff, I can handle. The problem is, they don't always throw a code. What I am Changing up, is the data link cable. I don't want these units to talk to each other anymore. They aren't speaking the same language to each other. I am going to add a buffer tank, and have the building go through it. Then, if one unit goes out or isn't working correctly, the building won't know it. If one unit is flashing an error code, they will still have hot water without having to do anything. Its just a poor design. A 12" x 15" computer board in these stupid things and there is no way for the client to take a unit out of priority. What really makes me mad, is at the time of install, they shipped me the Gu195S units (cheaper), and there was a back order on the More expensive Gu195M. We had to wait two weeks to get them, and now they are saying we should have done the S units. I looked into building my own tankless system, and could do it for about $1500.00 with components that we could all understand. The problem is, that our Government and UL rating, CODE BS, would cost around $250,000 to get through, and at the end of it all, they may not approve it. I could take my design, go to Korea and for $14,000 US, they make one and send me a request, asking how many I want. Our Government, then rubber stamps their approval,and off we go. Cost for making the unit in Korea is about $500.00 per unit US, shipping cost around $150.00 per unit. Sell it to Public for $1,985.00 It is JUST BS. My thoughts were to build them custom, Kind of like what American Choppers and others have done. Just small stuff really. My unit would be around 94% efficient. There may be some components that go bad, due to use and water, but I Guarantee the heat exchanger would not go bad for 20 years. If you ever get a chance to mess with a Defective Eternal with the Stainless Steel exchanger. Cut it in to pieces. The Stainless they are using is *$#@. Also, the outside of these stainless units is MAGNETIC. True Stainless will not hold a MAGNET. One of these units outside is already showing rust.
                              Last edited by Plumbingbyjay; 03-01-2013, 09:05 PM.
                              "don't put that in your mouth, you don't know where it's been"

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Eternal

                                Your perhaps not aware many stainless products and heat exchangers are magnetic because they are a Ferritic grade. They are used because of their corrosion, heat stress resistant properties.

                                Ferritic grades have been developed to provide a group of stainless steel to resist corrosion and oxidation, while being highly resistant to stress corrosion cracking. These steels are magnetic but cannot be hardened or strengthened by heat treatment. They can be cold worked and softened by annealing. As a group, they are more corrosive resistant than the martensitic grades, but generally inferior to the austenitic grades. Like martensitic grades, these are straight chromium steels with no nickel. They are used for decorative trim, sinks, and automotive applications, particularly exhaust systems.

                                You could maybe build a tankless and import but before you can sell it, it will cost you 1/2 million to get safety and government efficiency approvals, such as CSA and DOE/AHRI.
                                Last edited by Lee H; 03-02-2013, 04:59 PM.

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