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  • Plumbing Gurus - Pull Out Your Old Pump Books!

    I need help. We took a direct or near direct lightning strike to our well head. The pump was fried (and so is my 50" plasma TV). The pump I pulled tonight was an ancient Dayton/Teel submersible. Probably circa 1973 if it's the original. No one here knows. The information I have is:

    Dayton (motor)
    1/2 HP
    220 V
    2 wire

    Teel (pump end)
    Model 3P631B
    Date Code 048516310 8 or 0 or B for the last digit
    Stages 8

    Can anyone spec this pump with the old books? There is nothing I could find on the internet. I have water from a cross connection to the farm well across the road.

    (Also, the TV is being fixed under my extended warranty plan. No mention was made about any lightning. Though, the surge suppressor indicator light still says all is fine. So it may have been induced in other internal wiring or the HDMI cabling.)

    I didn't take any pictures of the old pump connector but 2 stainless steel hose clamps were blown apart from where the worm gear is clamped to the screw. The safety rope was also ripped apart in the same general area as the clamps. The original installers also never connected the ground wires - they were cut back to the wire insulation.
    ~~

    ... it was plumbed by Ray Charles and his helper Stevie Wonder

  • #2
    Re: Plumbing Gurus - Pull Out Your Old Pump Books!

    i'm not a pump/ well guy. but 1/2hp seems pretty shallow/ low volume. but then 8 stage pump impeller tells me deep.

    size it per the specs of your depth and demand.

    graingers has no cross reference on the old stuff?

    rick.
    phoebe it is

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Plumbing Gurus - Pull Out Your Old Pump Books!

      Bring it up to todays spec. as Rick said. You just need to work out a few details and a good rep should be able to steer you right. On the 1/2hp, look at the juice available. Mind you bore pumps today are a whole lot more efficient than what we used to have.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Plumbing Gurus - Pull Out Your Old Pump Books!

        Terry love has a well forum . Good help. Good Luck. THEN go to electricians talk for help. You want to have an electrician Megga test all Your home wiring ! This is a test to check for wire covering breakdown. Also You need to bond N ground so this doesn't happen again ! CALL HOMEOWNERS INSURANCE !!!!!!
        Last edited by toolaholic; 04-11-2013, 09:40 AM.
        I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Plumbing Gurus - Pull Out Your Old Pump Books!

          My Betta Flo 1/2hp ten gallon per minute is a 7 stage and is probably the most popular size pump in the Country. They are more than enough pump for a normal household. With a 50 foot water level and at 40 psi, you should be getting roughly 13 gpm.

          Teel is Graingers generic name, so you'll never know who actually made it. Graingers is an expensive place to buy a Pump anyhow. You should be able to get one for much less at a Plumbing Supply. Or if your in the mood, you can buy one from me. It would be a two wire too, but it will have the third wire which is a ground and helps a lot at steering Lightning away from your pump.
          Frequently asked questions about pumps and tanks.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Plumbing Gurus - Pull Out Your Old Pump Books!

            Originally posted by speedbump View Post
            My Betta Flo 1/2hp ten gallon per minute is a 7 stage and is probably the most popular size pump in the Country. They are more than enough pump for a normal household. With a 50 foot water level and at 40 psi, you should be getting roughly 13 gpm.

            Teel is Graingers generic name, so you'll never know who actually made it. Graingers is an expensive place to buy a Pump anyhow. You should be able to get one for much less at a Plumbing Supply. Or if your in the mood, you can buy one from me. It would be a two wire too, but it will have the third wire which is a ground and helps a lot at steering Lightning away from your pump.
            Speed,what do You think of Wayne pumps ? Thanks Tool
            I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Plumbing Gurus - Pull Out Your Old Pump Books!

              I wouldn't put one in my Well. They have always been an inexpensive alternative to a good Pump. I don't know of any Well Drilling Supply Houses that would sell them. You will see them and others all over the Internet at rock bottom prices. I've no idea who's motor they are using.
              Frequently asked questions about pumps and tanks.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Plumbing Gurus - Pull Out Your Old Pump Books!

                I replaced the pump last night. I didn't have much choice as the farm water is crappier than mine. We were getting cloudy water and iron smell - stuff the softener system couldn't handle.

                The well is 35 ft deep, the pump is set at 32. Static water level is 5 feet below grade. Lateral run to the house is about 60 feet with a 5 foot rise. We don't know the recovery but it has never gone dry even running 2 garden hoses all day plus whatever else inside the house. Cut in = 45, cut out = 65. Tractor Supply had some proprietary pump I didn't trust. Lost of plastic. Lowe's had a Utili-Tech pump I had heard of and it uses Franklin motors and has stainless parts. We got the 2 wire w/ ground, 1/2 hp, 220v, 10 gpm version with a built-in check valve. It's faster than the old pump as read on the pressure tank gauge. There is a new brass pipe adapter installed and new clamps. The electrical ground has been reattached.

                I was so tired that when i turned it all back on nothing worked. I turned on the wrong breaker. oops.

                I'm still curious about the specs. No pump site has any cross reference available for this pump. According to them all, it doesn't exist.

                (The TV repair center called and stated where I live is too far away. The guy did nothing but carp about how bad Panasonic's troubleshooting is and how expensive their parts are, and how he has no stock... Then I was told the TV has to be removed from the house, with no guarantee about travel damage repair, or he's not coming. If he does come someone else has to be here to move the TV because he's just had hernia surgery. All this is contrary to Panasonic's warranty center due to the unit's size. There's a reason I paid the dollars for in-home service, too! Well, I did the smart thing and called the warranty center back and told them the situation. I will have a new service center shortly.)
                ~~

                ... it was plumbed by Ray Charles and his helper Stevie Wonder

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Plumbing Gurus - Pull Out Your Old Pump Books!

                  Originally posted by Plumber Punky View Post
                  I need help. We took a direct or near direct lightning strike to our well head. The pump was fried (and so is my 50" plasma TV). The pump I pulled tonight was an ancient Dayton/Teel submersible. Probably circa 1973 if it's the original. No one here knows. The information I have is:

                  Dayton (motor)
                  1/2 HP
                  220 V
                  2 wire

                  Teel (pump end)
                  Model 3P631B
                  Date Code 048516310 8 or 0 or B for the last digit
                  Stages 8

                  Can anyone spec this pump with the old books? There is nothing I could find on the internet. I have water from a cross connection to the farm well across the road.

                  (Also, the TV is being fixed under my extended warranty plan. No mention was made about any lightning. Though, the surge suppressor indicator light still says all is fine. So it may have been induced in other internal wiring or the HDMI cabling.)

                  I didn't take any pictures of the old pump connector but 2 stainless steel hose clamps were blown apart from where the worm gear is clamped to the screw. The safety rope was also ripped apart in the same general area as the clamps. The original installers also never connected the ground wires - they were cut back to the wire insulation.
                  Get yourself a Goulds 1/2 hp 7 gpm pump and be sure to replace the wire as well. No safety wire is needed and use either stainless or brass PE x male adapters. If it had a torque arrester on it you should probably put it back on as well and use three wire standoffs within the 1st 30 feet of the pump. then tape the wires to the well pipe every 8' or so.
                  sigpic

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Plumbing Gurus - Pull Out Your Old Pump Books!

                    ME thinks It's time for lightning RODS !!
                    I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Plumbing Gurus - Pull Out Your Old Pump Books!

                      I'm not sure who Ulil a Tech (or whatever) is, but I think they are Myers. I know Tractor Supply sold a blue jet pump that was a cheapie Myers. Since Pentair owns practically all the brand name pump companies now, you will never know what your buying. They mix and match stuff, make up new brand names to disguise what your getting etc. It just ain't like the good old days. By the way, Goulds was owned by ITT, the outfit that owned most of the other Brand names and just sold Goulds to some outfit called Xylem. Go figure!
                      Frequently asked questions about pumps and tanks.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Plumbing Gurus - Pull Out Your Old Pump Books!

                        Some help from Electrician Talk. J Larson and SD Sparky #1 You need an electrician with LPS and surge Protection experience. On the main Panel You can add a Whole house surge Protector after the Main breaker. #2 Lightning rod on Your well and home . Run an Isolated conductor on Highest point to Earth. I think We're all getting some great info on Wells .
                        How about adding a " WELL FORUM " ???????
                        I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Plumbing Gurus - Pull Out Your Old Pump Books!

                          Originally posted by toolaholic View Post
                          ME thinks It's time for lightning RODS !!
                          We already have them. Also found a roasted GFCI and LED night light. Both will be replaced.

                          Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                          Get yourself a Goulds 1/2 hp 7 gpm pump and be sure to replace the wire as well. No safety wire is needed and use either stainless or brass PE x male adapters. If it had a torque arrester on it you should probably put it back on as well and use three wire standoffs within the 1st 30 feet of the pump. then tape the wires to the well pipe every 8' or so.
                          Goulds was over twice the price for the same pump. It's even the same quality of parts, some even the same brand. I already had this proce for my father's well. A saefty rope is not required but it is a wise idea if the pump can drop lower than what you can reach. The original torque arrester was reinstalled. The original wire was reused. It tested OK. No wire standoffs were used as the well is quite shallow. The arrester keeps it all aligned.

                          I'm also thinking of installing one of the panel surge suppressor units. Though, I have trouble believing that they can suppress a large surge once it is on the bars of the panel box. What's it supposed to do? Detect a huge over-voltage then cause a short that trips the main breaker?

                          Would bonding the well pump ground to the casing have any benefit?
                          ~~

                          ... it was plumbed by Ray Charles and his helper Stevie Wonder

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Plumbing Gurus - Pull Out Your Old Pump Books!

                            Originally posted by Plumber Punky View Post
                            We already have them. Also found a roasted GFCI and LED night light. Both will be replaced.



                            Goulds was over twice the price for the same pump. It's even the same quality of parts, some even the same brand. I already had this proce for my father's well. A saefty rope is not required but it is a wise idea if the pump can drop lower than what you can reach. The original torque arrester was reinstalled. The original wire was reused. It tested OK. No wire standoffs were used as the well is quite shallow. The arrester keeps it all aligned.

                            I'm also thinking of installing one of the panel surge suppressor units. Though, I have trouble believing that they can suppress a large surge once it is on the bars of the panel box. What's it supposed to do? Detect a huge over-voltage then cause a short that trips the main breaker?

                            Would bonding the well pump ground to the casing have any benefit?
                            You would be well served to ask these questions on electrician talk
                            I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Plumbing Gurus - Pull Out Your Old Pump Books!

                              Would bonding the well pump ground to the casing have any benefit?
                              I don't know if it helps or not, but it's code here in my County. I do know that since (whatever their called) the Electrical Code came out adding the Green wire to the shell of the motor on submersibles, lightning damage has really gone down.

                              I have a 97 foot pipe antenna mast for a Ham Radio Repeater at my house which is grounded to the electric companies ground at the ground rod and it's bonded to an old 3" abandoned well in my yard. It's done according to Motorola's grounding specs. And it seems to be working. With all the lightning we have in the Tampa area, I'm impressed.
                              Frequently asked questions about pumps and tanks.

                              Comment

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