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Help identify some tubing

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  • Help identify some tubing

    Hey there every one...here's a puzzle for you hydronic pros out there. I have a client with this tubing running throughout. It is 3/8", red rubber hose. It appears to be running 3 tubes together.

    The church that this is in was built approx. between 1988 and 1992, in British Columbia, Canada.

    It has no oxygen barrier or aluminum core, red rubber through and through. Not Onix or Pex.

    Any ideas?Click image for larger version

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  • #2
    Re: Help identify some tubing

    That product is basically EPDM rubber hose. It's an Entran competitor/variant that also had large failure rates. I found a decent web site with some information:

    Heating Help

    This is the exact same type of pipe we used in the greenhouses for hydronic heating. It eventually failed from the inside out, due to oxygen in the water, chemicals, and general water flow erosion.
    ~~

    ... it was plumbed by Ray Charles and his helper Stevie Wonder

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Help identify some tubing

      Originally posted by Plumber Punky View Post
      That product is basically EPDM rubber hose. It's an Entran competitor/variant that also had large failure rates. I found a decent web site with some information:

      Heating Help

      This is the exact same type of pipe we used in the greenhouses for hydronic heating. It eventually failed from the inside out, due to oxygen in the water, chemicals, and general water flow erosion.
      Have you actually seen this product? Or are you just guessing? It is not even close to Entran II/Heatlink as it does not have any reinforcement or oxy barrier.

      I read that forum post too. This is the same product he shows.

      Installed late 1980's/early 1990's, in British Columbia, Canada.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Help identify some tubing

        I didnt say it was an Entran product. I said it was a similar product that was in use at the time of Entran and that it also had problems.

        I have seen the stuff and it's crap. Can I be any more clear than that?
        ~~

        ... it was plumbed by Ray Charles and his helper Stevie Wonder

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Help identify some tubing

          Originally posted by Plumber Punky View Post
          I didnt say it was an Entran product. I said it was a similar product that was in use at the time of Entran and that it also had problems.

          I have seen the stuff and it's crap. Can I be any more clear than that?
          Yeah I've seen it to, and yes it's crap. But that hardly helps the congregation of the church that is relying on this "crap" to keep the heat on.

          So while I appreciate that you have seen some pipe somewhere that is crap, but unless you can tell me something I don't already know about this, you are hardly helping anything.

          How's that for clarity?

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Help identify some tubing

            You didnt ask for anything more than an identification. You have what you asked for.

            Help? The proper solution to a crappy product is to tear it out and replace it.
            ~~

            ... it was plumbed by Ray Charles and his helper Stevie Wonder

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Help identify some tubing

              Originally posted by Plumber Punky View Post
              You didnt ask for anything more than an identification. You have what you asked for.

              Help? The proper solution to a crappy product is to tear it out and replace it.
              Sure...Rip it out. Demolish the church to do it. Remove the thousands of feet of tubing, replace all 8 of the 50+ port manifolds, heck, while we're at it. Replace the boiler.

              Who cares what it costs? Oh, right, the customer.

              But don't worry, I didn't ask for advice on what to do, I asked for identification.

              And you identified it as "crap". But you also said you installed it in greenhouses, but still can't give it a name.

              No help, just hot air.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Help identify some tubing

                Not that I can add any help with the product. But truthfully, plumber punky stepped up to the plate and offered some information. Maybe not what youre looking for, but more than anyone else as of now.

                Not taking sides, but he's done nothing wrong.

                Wish I could help, but heating is not my thing in calif.

                Let's hope you get the answer you need before this gets too off track.

                To clarify, is the hose ok everywhere else but the barbed connections? Is it the connections that have failed ? The rest of the hose length is ok as far as you know?

                Do you know the operating pressure and temperatures?

                I would think if its just the connections, there should be a simple fix. If its the hose in its entirety, you're up the creek.

                Wish I had the answer.

                Rick.
                phoebe it is

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Help identify some tubing

                  Not hot air, hot water...

                  You're right, I can't give yours a name but I did identify it - it's an EPDM rebranded rubber product. In the greenhouse, ours was rebranded by the local NAPA auto parts store. The actual manufacturer was Goodyear. We never used the 3rd hose. It came on large bulk rolls.

                  The rubber was red; printed in black on the side it said:

                  NAPA -------------- GOODYEAR --------------- NAPA ----------------- GOODYEAR ----------------- etc

                  If you have to remove the piping to do the proper job, then that's what you have to do. Don't be a hack and Rube Goldberg it all together. It only gives you and your company a bad name. I'm sure you can find a suitable pex product to mate to your manifold. There are pex versions that both clamp and use compression fittings.

                  I'm sorry you don't like the answers. Saving the customer money is important but doing a proper job is more important. Perhaps you have too much of a personal investment in this job.

                  I've been on jobs, too, that were very expensive to fix. (Our church of less than 1000 parishioners just upgraded the entire hydronic system. New baseboards, remove old steel piping and old standup radiators, new high efficiency boiler, pex and copper piping. The steel piping was plugging off. Floors opened, walls opened, beams bored, etc. Sometimes it has to be done!) I've also walked away from jobs where the customer wanted patch-work-hack-engineering.

                  The long and short of this EPDM pipe problem is that is is known to have problems. Patching them is a temporary fix. Sooner or later they will replace it all, after they get upset with spending so much money on patching... or when their priceless non-replaceable wooden altar, floor, or stairs are damaged from water blasting out of yet another broken pipe.
                  Last edited by Plumber Punky; 09-30-2013, 12:07 AM. Reason: details
                  ~~

                  ... it was plumbed by Ray Charles and his helper Stevie Wonder

                  Comment

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