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Plastic vs Cast Iron for Sewers

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  • Plastic vs Cast Iron for Sewers

    Hey guys I have a very good friend that is a building admin at an architectural firm and they are working on a project where the city wants them to use cast iron for the lateral lines but they want to use schedule 40 pvc. I can't give out a lot of info but I can tell you the job is in southern California on a new construction project 1 mile from the San Andreas fault line. I think plastic would be the way to go. Do you guys have different opinion or the same? By all means I am not the expert so if you guys think differently, I am all ears. However if I am right on this is there any documentation proving this would be the best method for the area?
    Last edited by DanLawrence; 11-13-2013, 06:43 PM.

  • #2
    Re: Plastic vs Cast Iron for Sewers

    what about clay?
    ~~

    ... it was plumbed by Ray Charles and his helper Stevie Wonder

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Plastic vs Cast Iron for Sewers

      Originally posted by DanLawrence View Post
      Hey guys I have a very good friend that is a building admin at an architectural firm and they are working on a project where the city wants them to use cast iron for the lateral lines but they want to use schedule 40 pvc. I can't give out a lot of info but I can tell you the job is in southern California on a new construction project 1 mile from the San Andreas fault line. I think plastic would be the way to go. Do you guys have different opinion or the same? By all means I am not the expert so if you guys think differently, I am all ears. However if I am right on this is there any documentation proving this would be the best method for the area?
      If this is a commercial building, the requirement of Cast Iron does not surprise me. Domestic Cast Iron, properly installed will last longer than most of us.

      Mark
      "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

      I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

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      • #4
        Re: Plastic vs Cast Iron for Sewers

        Plastic.

        No RootX to sell either. Sorry.

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        • #5
          Re: Plastic vs Cast Iron for Sewers

          Originally posted by DanLawrence View Post
          Hey guys I have a very good friend that is a building admin at an architectural firm and they are working on a project where the city wants them to use cast iron for the lateral lines but they want to use schedule 40 pvc. I can't give out a lot of info but I can tell you the job is in southern California on a new construction project 1 mile from the San Andreas fault line. I think plastic would be the way to go. Do you guys have different opinion or the same? By all means I am not the expert so if you guys think differently, I am all ears. However if I am right on this is there any documentation proving this would be the best method for the area?
          It would be best to contact Charlotte Pipe or other manufacturers' engineering department if your serious and need input. They can assess the situation for their products, likelihood of damage from seismic activity for each, longevity etc.

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          • #6
            Re: Plastic vs Cast Iron for Sewers

            come on seriously. maybe there are conditions cast would be better maybe earth quakes ??. I would rather have clay with elastomeric couplings then cast. Pvc has 1 major MAJOR downfall and that is no forgiveness in the joints. so if you force a 45 to make a 50 degree turn the fitting will crack over time. AND WE ALL DONE IT!
            Last edited by saysflushable; 11-13-2013, 08:11 PM.

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            • #7
              Re: Plastic vs Cast Iron for Sewers

              If cast is what the code says for commercial then that's the way it is, I have ran into this a lot when I thought schedule 40 would be the best choice.
              Seattle Drain Service

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              • #8
                Re: Plastic vs Cast Iron for Sewers

                Originally posted by saysflushable View Post
                come on seriously. maybe there are conditions cast would be better but I don't know of them. I would rather have clay with elastomeric couplings then cast. Pvc has 1 major MAJOR downfall and that is no forgiveness in the joints. so if you force a 45 to make a 50 degree turn the fitting will crack. AND WE ALL DONE IT!
                No, we all have not done it.

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                • #9
                  Re: Plastic vs Cast Iron for Sewers

                  Originally posted by BobsPlumbing View Post
                  It would be best to contact Charlotte Pipe or other manufacturers' engineering department if your serious and need input. They can assess the situation for their products, likelihood of damage from seismic activity for each, longevity etc.
                  That's a great idea to contact the manufacturers, I agree with mark that cast would outlast us if done right but as a company doing the build I assume they are trying to save on the cost of cast vs pvc. I am not sure if it's code or if they just didn't sign off on it because they prefer cast, I will try and find out.

                  Thanks everyone for your responses I will keep reading them.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Plastic vs Cast Iron for Sewers

                    Originally posted by BobsPlumbing View Post
                    No, we all have not done it.
                    Thank you Bob. Plumbing does not need anything more than 22.5, 45 and 90 degree turns. If you need 50 your problem started further upstream.

                    David

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                    • #11
                      Re: Plastic vs Cast Iron for Sewers

                      there are bends other than those listed above. they just arent as common.
                      ~~

                      ... it was plumbed by Ray Charles and his helper Stevie Wonder

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                      • #12
                        Re: Plastic vs Cast Iron for Sewers

                        just cut out a 65 year old piece of 4'' cast that was under a house today that's sitting on the ground. after 65 years the pipe is as thick and clean as the day it was installed. of course the other plumber wanted $9,000. to replace the waste pipe under the crawl space for 2 bath house. I cut in a cleanout so the outside main can be cleaned. it's 4'5'' deep outside the footing, yet ground level under the house.

                        my camera says the problem is outside the house. their 9,000 estimate says it's under the house. guess who's right

                        cast is easier to properly grade and install as it's true and straight. plastic by the time it gets delivered, looks like a wet 2x4 at hd. it doglegs and unless you know how to properly install 20' at a time and properly compact, it can be less forgiving. although plastic will stay spotless longer, it's not necessarily installed properly. especially when they allow 1% grade on some of these lines.

                        same applies to clay. it's heavy to work with, but stays true in the ditch. and has some give in the bands to absorb movement.

                        at 1 time Beverly hills didn't allow clay in the property line. only the public right of way. underground cast over a long time in wet environments will rot internally and externally. clay and plastic doesn't.

                        plastic is a good product, but seldom gets installed properly with the correct bedding and fill. cast and clay is more forgiving and might be the reason why they don't want plastic.

                        rick.
                        phoebe it is

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                        • #13
                          Re: Plastic vs Cast Iron for Sewers

                          Code aside SDR 35 Gasketed is forgiving with earth movement. The important part is good compaction!
                          I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

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                          • #14
                            Re: Plastic vs Cast Iron for Sewers

                            We have such varied geology here that the clay sections tend to come undone. The clay that does remain is in good shape, though. Sometimes, even though the clay is disjointed, it can be sleeved with new plastic, which saves immensely on the digging and labor costs.
                            ~~

                            ... it was plumbed by Ray Charles and his helper Stevie Wonder

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Plastic vs Cast Iron for Sewers

                              ...."plastic by the time it gets delivered, looks like a wet 2x4 at hd."

                              What in the he!! are you talking about? This is a flat out lie. Wait, maybe that's too harsh. It's just incorrect. I install PVC weekly & this is not true. Work with true Sch. 40 and Foamcore Sch. 40 with weather from 20 degrees F to 100 degrees F and this does not happen.

                              "...it doglegs and unless you know how to properly install 20' at a time and properly compact,"

                              Also untrue. And what licensed person doesn't know how to properly install 20' of PVC at a time and properly compact? Seriously, I almost started laughing at this. "Boss, we can't properly compact and install 20' of PVC at time. You'll just have to take this back and get us some clay...."

                              "it can be less forgiving."

                              Hasn't been my experience. Strange to me that you & possibly others are having so much trouble with "forgiveness" between clay and PVC. I don't see or hear of PVC shifts causing breaks and/or cracks much, if ever. But do hear and see it with clay.

                              "although plastic will stay spotless longer, it's not necessarily installed properly. especially when they allow 1% grade on some of these lines."

                              If you cannot install PVC at 1%, you need to quit right now.

                              "...plastic is a good product, but seldom gets installed properly with the correct bedding and fill"

                              Wrong again. I really don't want to say it and get into some continuous argument with you, but this is a really dumb statement. This is like me saying "CI is a good product, but seldom gets installed properly with correct hangers. And therefore, don't put it in...." You're right in a way. If you cannot install it properly, then you shouldn't. But that goes for anything in the world from PVC to computer chips.

                              There is no reason for a residential sewer to be anything but PVC in the majority. I'll install a sewer next week, and odds are those reading this, their kids, and grandkids, will be dead before it needs a jetter in the line or any sort of work. And then it STILL may need nothing. Meanwhile your clay will most likely go into it's cycle of allowing root intrusion that needing periodic maintenance.

                              Install PVC if you want to do this once and not have to maintain it. Anyone recommending clay is lost or has some ulterior motive to put you on a "maintenance schedule". Municipalities requiring you to put in clay are idiots. I'm talking to you in planning, engineering, inspections if you are reading.

                              Clay is Old School garbage. Keep using it if you want to install something inferior. It's junk.

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