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  • Wiped joints

    Lots of older homes in my area have wiped joints before the water meeter.

    This confuses me as no one seems alarmed nor is it brought up in any inspection form or discussion.

    There seems to be no push in town by the cities or local plumbers to replace these lines.

    The only thing I have heard from the obvious is that over the years crud has covered the lead
    and sealed it off from the water.

    Are we all getting dumbed down?

    I'll go sit in the corner now with a glass of water while I listen to some answers.

  • #2
    Re: Wiped joints

    My grandfather was a master at the art of wiping joints.

    lead services were the norm in the Chicago area up until the 70's.

    Hard to tell homeowners that the have to spend several grand to change the water service to copper.

    I've had a few Cali transplants freak out when they see the lead service, but then balk at the cost to replace it. I had one get a water sample tested and there was no noticeable difference in water quality.

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    • #3
      Re: Wiped joints

      wiped. lol.

      we have lead pipes still supplying water to homes. the lead is fine until it is disturbed. lead forms oxides when in contact with water. the oxides are (supposedly) non-toxic (i never looked it up). the water authority here only requires the service to be replaced if it is broken during a dig or something similar.
      ~~

      ... it was plumbed by Ray Charles and his helper Stevie Wonder

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      • #4
        Re: Wiped joints

        Meanwhile, we've had recent "lead free" enforced across the board on everything. I've read the law and percentages involved.

        Now, what I want to know is why was it instituted? Does anyone have any study of lead problems due to the previous alloy mixtures?

        Thanks.

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        • #5
          Re: Wiped joints

          Funny this gets brought up.I had to change a 1 " lead water service that supplied a park with water.I asked the inspector if he wanted the round way changed and b box replaced.He said just cut it off 1' past round way use a 1 " xx s by 1 " flare copper ford fitting and 1 "copper to meter vault and to supply drinking fountains.i asked if he wanted me to go to the tap and he said no.just go from inside the park at the b box and round way...

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          • #6
            Re: Wiped joints

            Sorry guys but we are leaps and bounds ahead downunder on this.(not trying to stick it up you at all). Amazing how some Governments seem to dither and procrastinate where we see ours being somewhat over the top at times. I know some say that the lead is protected by dirt and other that forms over and seals it off. Yeah I believe that too...........!!!!
            You guys should already be aware of "Duty of Care" which will be part of the water company's charter. Start asking for guarantees in writing and get it into the press and see what happens.> "Yes Mr CEO I believe what you say, would you mind writing that down on a Letterhead with your claims that it is all good and then sign it with your name that I have absolutely nothing to worry about.
            The latest thing we have down here is one of the Water Corporations wants all GAL pipe to be protected from coming into contact with potable water. Copper is proper. There was even a recent release detailing the health benefits from using copper tube in water supply. We haven't got to the point where Rick and others are having to use water soluble flux, but I reckon it wont be long.


            IMHO lobby to get rid of the lead. It has been linked to many things, Alzheimers and dementia amongst the most common.

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            • #7
              Re: Wiped joints

              that study has been floating around for a long time. another study came out refuting the 'benefits' study. I can tell you that copper plumbing in houses where the owners have aquariums is typically detrimental to the occupants of the aquariums. Some plants have sensitivies to copper also. Farms which have sheep and similar creatures cant have copper lines. The copper kills these animals.

              Now, Im not saying we should keep lead. It was used back in the day because it was plentiful and there weren't many studies done about the effects of lead over time.

              One of our local wholesalers had a seminar recently. They took some of their customers and told them to solder the new lead-free fittings to copper using regular flux. They told me that they cut the fitting open and the guys couldnt achieve a 1/2 socket depth solder joint using regular flux. The lead-free suppliers said there is a special water-based tinning flux that MUST be used to achieve a full-depth solder joint. It's 4 times the cost of regular flux.

              I call BS. I've never had any problem soldering to the new stuff. I use the Oatey red container flux. Shoot, I can see the solder at the pipe end when looking inside a ball valve for example. To me, a tinning solder is for people who dont have proper soldering abilities to begin with and the tin hides the problems of the torch holder.
              ~~

              ... it was plumbed by Ray Charles and his helper Stevie Wonder

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              • #8
                Re: Wiped joints

                The oxides coat the inside of the pipe, sealing them so the walls won't leach. Same thing happens with copper joints soldered with 50-50. With aggressive (acidic) water all bets are off.
                Last edited by Plumbus; 03-24-2014, 10:50 AM.

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                • #9
                  Re: Wiped joints

                  This has been interesting, thanks for the comments.

                  Searching the Web I have yet to see anything remotely saying lead is healthy or
                  lead pipes are OK.

                  Now adding the idea of acidity, minerals and who knows what else
                  in the water system to erode and disturb the lead and have it leach into the populace.

                  The older homes with lead in my town are generally in the poorer areas.
                  Jump to your own conclusions.

                  I don't want to jump on any band wagon just yet.
                  More thoughts are appreciated.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Wiped joints

                    I dont think you will find anything that says that lead products for potable water are OK. I only said that our water authority states that lead pipes are OK 'in-situ' provided they are not disturbed. Once disturbed they have to be removed or they wont turn the water back on.
                    ~~

                    ... it was plumbed by Ray Charles and his helper Stevie Wonder

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Wiped joints

                      Originally posted by Plumber Punky View Post
                      wiped. lol.

                      we have lead pipes still supplying water to homes. the lead is fine until it is disturbed. lead forms oxides when in contact with water. the oxides are (supposedly) non-toxic (i never looked it up). the water authority here only requires the service to be replaced if it is broken during a dig or something similar.

                      I don't get what's funny about that term. Every lead service I have ever seen has piece of galvy wiped onto the lead stubbed up through the floor or wall

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                      • #12
                        Re: Wiped joints

                        i find it amusing because here, in primitive-ville, the lead service comes from the water main, all the way through the wall or floor, to the meter. the pipe type then changes after the meter.

                        we dont have fancy stub connections.
                        ~~

                        ... it was plumbed by Ray Charles and his helper Stevie Wonder

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Wiped joints

                          Here are some nice wiped lead joints pulled from a 100 year old house in Toronto. These however are obviously not water service line, they are sewer lines. From what I have seen in old houses in Toronto, the lead water service comes in through the stone foundation wall, then is flared to the water valve (a huge brass valve weighing 2-3 lbs- I actually have one) which is then connected to galvanized (where no meter is present). Over the last 5-10 years cities around Toronto have offered incentive programs to have your lead water line replaced with copper. Some cities pay 50% of the cost, others will put in the copper line to the property line for free and then you pay from the property line to inside your house. Also, the cities recommend flushing your water for 5 minutes each morning if you have lead pipes.
                          Attached Files

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                          • #14
                            Re: Wiped joints

                            Originally posted by Plumber Punky View Post
                            I dont think you will find anything that says that lead products for potable water are OK. I only said that our water authority states that lead pipes are OK 'in-situ' provided they are not disturbed. Once disturbed they have to be removed or they wont turn the water back on.
                            n


                            Punky, that's what I was saying. See if you can get the Public Servants to put it in writing that it is OK as long as you don't disturb it and watch how many Slugs and Grubs(AKA solicitors) jump on the next plane to where you are coz they will make absolute truck loads of retirement funds suing their asses

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                            • #15
                              Re: Wiped joints

                              Up front I am not a Chemist but they promote the benefits of copper here. Mind you I used to believe it until the copper started corroding from the inside out instead of the other way. All the chemicals and stuff the water boards put in the water to get world health organization standards is just beyond. There is a state here called Adelaide. Not sure whether your Rick visited but if he did love to hear his comments on the water there. Mind you the kids don't have half the problems others do in other states. Water is precious but we seem to have bureaucrats sooking up and getting their way fooling with quality. I will say again though that I am all for replacing the lead. Not real nice anymore...........!!!!

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