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Trench-less pipe installation with pipe bursting technology

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  • Trench-less pipe installation with pipe bursting technology

    Hi folks,
    Jason from ridgid came out to do a demo for me (eyeing the 200'self level, cs10, sr-20) on a job. Now more confused with cs10 vs cs6 and sr-20 vs scout and mini vs full but know narrowed down to these items. Sorry about saying this in the wrong post but just got too excited!!

    My confusion is that the client needs it done but has mentioned a competitor (Drain Master) who advertises drain line replacement without digging. I haven't witnessed a job using this technology but have been approached by guys who own a backhoe and wants to do my next water line. I believe there will be a time i will try that out with a straight long water line.

    This particular job is 40 to 50 foot long 4 inch line starting at about 18 inches down and connect about 4 feet deep on the other end. The 18 inch starting point is in a concrete catch basin with a back water valve that i installed 3 years ago for him. This catch basin is to catch only drain tile and storm drains. What Jason and i saw is concrete tiles with fine roots penetrating through about 7 places. I used my k7500 to clear his back up 2 weeks ago. Either the roots grew back or i just did a poor job. I also believe his basement sanitary sump ties into this line which explains the food and toilet paper i saw floating, back 2 weeks ago during the drain cleaning. In one area about 30 feet away, we saw a dip with his camera and went under water. Jason didn't bring out any ball guides so we didn't know how much under water we went. He apologized for being unprepared and we had this demo set a week prior. He was also more into showing the product line rather than help decipher the problem. I m going to have to bring a camera back to do a better diagnosis. Kinda waste of time i feel the first time!! After removing the inspection cover on the back water valve to insert the camera i can see already food and paper which tells me the tie in from the sump is near the beginning and/or this line is not carrying flow properly.

    The good decision made was that the client said he will go ahead to do a proper repair. I was presuming that this is going to be a digging job with a few helpers putting his backyard out of commission for a week to lay 4 inch PVC. Should it even be considered to try pulling a sewer pipe through the existing? It is not a big back yard and no machinery can be driven into his yard. I want to always do the right thing for my customers and wonder should i even consider using the trench less way although i don't quite see how it can be accomplished with some amount of manual digging. If im told that digging is the only option, i can go in and state that, knowing that i cannot offer a better way to solve his situation.

    thanks for reading my long winded story.


  • #2
    I've been doing trenchless/ pipe bursting for 12 years now. and believe me, if the job has the right conditions, the trenchless pipe bursting is the way to go. of course if there are tees or wyes. then those would have to be exposed to reconnect the branch line. I've never tried a 90, but a 4 is typically not an issue. longest continuous pull ive done was about 160'. all with just 2 holes approx. 48'' long, 30'' wide and 6'' deeper than the pipe on the pulling/ deep end and a smaller opening on the starting end. same as needed to connect to the original pipe. so basically I saved digging approx. 154' of gorgeous landscaping and concrete. inspector was more than impressed with the work.

    it's not cheap equipment nor is it for the weak as the machine needs to be assembled in the ditch and manhandled to get it going. but once it's all setup, I pull about 2'- 3' per minute. try digging and backfilling that fast without ever disturbing the area.

    as far as a camera goes, I still feel that the rm 200 or seesnake mini will give you the most options overall. I can do 1.5'' -6'' no problem and 8'' with less lighting. the cs6 is half the price of the cs10 and takes up less than 1/2 the space. the scout will save you some money if all you really do is camera/ sonde locates, but if you start to get into utility locating, I would go with the sr-20.

    you should be able to find a local pipe bursting company that can give you a price to pipe burst the line. problem is the company you mentioned, also invented their own line of pipe bursting machines. so I doubt that anyone close by can compete with them.

    Rick.
    phoebe it is

    Comment


    • robertochekwong
      robertochekwong commented
      Editing a comment
      Thanks Rick for all the great advise. You raised my confidence with pipe bursting. I am going to get a price to pipe burst that and make the connections myself. What i need to do is also go back and camera again properly(Cuda pointed out) to check the severity of the belly in the pipe. Your description helped me picture what i will be getting into with pipe bursting. I d probably not even would have considered pipe bursting until you described it for me.

      Thanks for steering me with the camera equipment. I m going down to Hansen Raider this week to take a closer look at the mini color and cs6. I was wonder Rick do you have success in going through clean outs and turns in two inch lines with the full size 200'? I m guessing ci is a bigger struggle than abs with any camera?

  • #3
    Drain line replacement without digging using pipe bursting is a truth stretcher, they mean no digging of trenches not no digging at all you must have a 2.5 x 3 foot minimum opening on top of the pipe at the beginning and end. If someone is using lining as the trenchless then they in fact may not dig at all if they are skilled in blowing the liner in through a cleanout or in your case B/W valve or catch basin. But if there really is a belly then lining should not even be considered. If it is a slight short belly then pipe bursting may be possible maybe not. I should have started this reply with get a camera back in there and report exact findings then go from there lol
    Seattle Drain Service

    Comment


    • robertochekwong
      robertochekwong commented
      Editing a comment
      Thanks Cuda for all your help. You also boosted my confidence to try pipe bursting. You made a good point with going back with a camera to do a precise diagnosis. I m wondering how bad that pipe belly is. I understand now that will be a big deciding factor if i am going to end up digging their nice yard up. I m going to email my client tonight to let them know that i need to camera again before i can go on. I know i also need to locate exactly where the tie in is from the basement sump as im almost sure its there. I can sure use this job money to pay for part of the camera kit i wishing to get.

    • Cuda
      Cuda commented
      Editing a comment
      Yes get a look at the belly with a ball guide to see the amount of water that is being held, also with a locator mark the beginning and end of the belly above ground. Then with the camera at the spot the belly begins and ends even though you might not be able to see under water feel the push cable while pushing slowly, you are trying to feel if the camera head is hitting a joint separation ( like a foot running into a curb or dam) As sometimes the belly is either a good old fashion obstruction causing a dam at the bottom of the pipe or the next section of pipe the bell has risen up and is the reason for the belly. Or it actually may be a belly because some sections have sank from years of water loss at open joints. If it is a mild belly holding say 3/4" of water and it is a bell from a downstream section of pipe than a pipe burster would destroy the bell or obstruction and there may not be a belly when the line is pipe bursted. Or there may be a small one that you either live with because the pipe is such a slippery material compared to old worn out concrete or clay or you dig up the spot after the new line is in and correct the grade by hand. If the pipe turned to 6" after the belly area you could even upsize the pipe to 6" with bursting to remove the effect a belly has. Pipe bursting is the only trenchless method that can upsize the pipe.
      Last edited by Cuda; 07-06-2014, 11:51 PM.

  • #4
    Oh and you are not pulling a pipe into the other one with pipe bursting that is called slip lining, when you pipe burst the front cone actually splits up and fractures the existing line pushing it outward into the soil and the new pipe occupies the space the old pipe did. Go on youtube and watch a bunch of videos and you will understand. Rick told me years ago not to get into bursting but I didn't listen now I have a lot of gray hairs.
    Seattle Drain Service

    Comment


    • PLUMBER RICK
      PLUMBER RICK commented
      Editing a comment
      you might have grey hair now, but nothing that can't be fixed with all the green in the pocket.
      also most don't listen to me anyways.
      happy 4th. hope you took the day off too.

      Rick.

    • Cuda
      Cuda commented
      Editing a comment
      Happy 4th to you to, yes I took it off just worked on broken equipment at the house.
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