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  • Water in the pipes - low tech style

    Well looky here it's my first post. I've read over y'alls writings and i do enjoy seeing a bunch of people that know what they are talking about in a plumbing forum. I work for one of those large conglomerate plumbing/sewer and drain companies. Guess who? [img]smile.gif[/img] I do mostly plumbing and i would like to pose a question about sweating pipes when you can't seem to get all the water out of them. I typically use a MAPP gas can with an extension hose turbo torch head, and regular Oatey solder and flux. Excluding jet sweat kits which i think are too expensive, what have y'all used to stop that water and get the joint sweated? Second question: What are some of the funniest or most rediculous things you've heard of people using that didn't work? Third question: Has anyone successfully made their own jet sweats out of some all-thread or the likes of which?

  • #2
    Originally posted by Theron:
    Well looky here it's my first post. I've read over y'alls writings and i do enjoy seeing a bunch of people that know what they are talking about in a plumbing forum. I work for one of those large conglomerate plumbing/sewer and drain companies. Guess who? [img]smile.gif[/img] I do mostly plumbing and i would like to pose a question about sweating pipes when you can't seem to get all the water out of them. I typically use a MAPP gas can with an extension hose turbo torch head, and regular Oatey solder and flux. Excluding jet sweat kits which i think are too expensive, what have y'all used to stop that water and get the joint sweated? Second question: What are some of the funniest or most rediculous things you've heard of people using that didn't work? Third question: Has anyone successfully made their own jet sweats out of some all-thread or the likes of which?
    Before Jet-Sweats it was the old traditional bread, or a rag.

    When Jet-Sweats first came out one of the plumbers made one out of all thread and a dollar plug. It worked, but was ont as handy as the real thing.

    the dog
    the dog

    Comment


    • #3
      The only issue I have against the Jet-Swet was they only hold to 60 psig. If you have a leaking SOV at your supply you have to try and sweat your repair prior to the water getting there or it will blow the Jet-Swet out.

      I spent years suggesting to Brenelle they use a hollow piece of all-thread so the pressure would be relieved throught the all-thread. While they never changed I believe a new manufacturers is making one with hollow all-thread now.

      Mark
      "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

      I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

      Comment


      • #4
        I have, of course, heard of the white bread (no crust) trick, but i've never used it because ... i don't carry white bread in the truck, and it would feel and look a little silly. I have an apprentice with me, and he told me a story of one time he saw someone use the bread and it shot out of the pipe when he tried to solder it. Anyone use those little plugs that "dissolve"? Hollow all-thread - i've never seen that, can you just plop down to Home depot and pick that up or is it a specialty item?

        Comment


        • #5
          Utah, excuse my ignorance, but what is SOV an abbreviation for? Thanks

          Comment


          • #6
            I'm sure you would have to have the all-thread manufactured out of stainless, but when your charging $250 for $20 worth of materials what's another few dollars.

            SOV = shut off valve.

            Mark
            "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

            I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

            Comment


            • #7
              A couple of things I do as far as soldering with water in the lines.

              All of my service trucks had air compressors and charged bottles on them. With a few minutes of blowing out a line you can eliminate a lot of problems with water in the line.

              If while soldering you get a shot of steam coming out of the fitting you likely will have a leak. Rather than turning the water on to check I cut the repair out and start over.

              If you have a leak in ANY solder job don’t try and re-solder the fitting. Cut the fitting out and make a proper repair.

              My last issue, and not all will agree, but I don’t like propane and I don’t like MAPP gas. When I solder I prefer a good quality air/acetylene torch.

              Mark
              "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

              I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by ToUtahNow:
                A couple of things I do as far as soldering with water in the lines.

                All of my service trucks had air compressors and charged bottles on them. With a few minutes of blowing out a line you can eliminate a lot of problems with water in the line.

                If while soldering you get a shot of steam coming out of the fitting you likely will have a leak. Rather than turning the water on to check I cut the repair out and start over.

                If you have a leak in ANY solder job don’t try and re-solder the fitting. Cut the fitting out and make a proper repair.

                My last issue, and not all will agree, but I don’t like propane and I don’t like MAPP gas. When I solder I prefer a good quality air/acetylene torch.

                Mark
                Utah,

                If the water will build 60psi before you can solder the new valve forget it. My experience has been to shut the water down and drain the system. Jet-Sweats are used to stop residual water drain. It is always necessary to open up-stream fixtures or drains. That goes with-out saying.

                I think that mapp gas is perfectly fine for 1-1/2" or lower soft soldered fittings, but I agree that air/acetylene is the best for 2" or higher.

                Just my opinion.

                the dog
                the dog

                Comment


                • #9
                  I would agree. an acetylene tank setup is far superior to a little mapp gas setup. I most commonly work on quick residential 1/2" - 3/4" stuff which makes it the perfect tool for the job. I have successfully used it to sweat a few 1 1/4" joints, but it did take a little patience.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    mark, i too for years have asked jet sweat to make a hollow one. every trade show they tell me that they have them. finally at last years show, they finally brought it out.
                    fortunatly i have many ways to deal with water.
                    freezing is an expensive option that you need the line dead ended to stop the flow to freez. sometimes not possible. now the best way and also not inexpensive, the propress tool and fittings. anyone that does major service work should own one. i can even do work witout shutting off the water if needed. as long as i don't flood the tool. the fittings slip on like butter, and crimp (press)like a vice.
                    another inexpensive solution is the new watts shark bite fittings. problem is they only come in 1/2'' and 3/4'' right now. you could always but a compression ball valve up to 1''.

                    with all the crapy flux out there good luck with any kind of water or steam.

                    rick.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I've seen those shark bite fittings in the plumbmaster catalog and on their website. I can't find any place to buy them at around here. Are they plentiful where y'all are?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        dog,

                        I think you are talking commercial and I was talking residential. In commercial there are a lot more places to bleed a system. However, if I am changing the main shut off valve on a house it's nice to not have to break the union nut on the meter tail piece to change the valve.

                        Mark

                        BTW: I'm going under the knife tomorrow so they can try and fix my leg from my ladder accident of last year. I will be gone for the next week or so. You guys be safe and watch those ladders.
                        "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                        I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ToUtahNow:
                          dog,

                          I think you are talking commercial and I was talking residential. In commercial there are a lot more places to bleed a system. However, if I am changing the main shut off valve on a house it's nice to not have to break the union nut on the meter tail piece to change the valve.

                          Mark

                          BTW: I'm going under the knife tomorrow so they can try and fix my leg from my ladder accident of last year. I will be gone for the next week or so. You guys be safe and watch those ladders.
                          Hope everthing works out ok Utah. Get healthy soon.

                          the dog
                          the dog

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Day old bread and a wet vac works wonders. Drop by a day old bread shop, grab a loaf for a quarter and you have all you would need for a week. Just be sure to flush the lines for a few moments after the work has been completed.

                            Mapp gas with the proper tip will burn hot enough to braze with. I've never had a problem with it all the way up to 2 inch though I usually use acetylene for anything bigger than one inch. The trick is working the heat properly.

                            If you are working through a small access panel good luck trying to get a propress in there.
                            Work hard, Play hard, Sleep easy.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              the problem with bread is that it will and does plug up aereators, flow restrictors, ballcocks. washing machine screens and just about anything else that is flow restricted. you don't want to plug up a pull out kitchen sink faucet. those have 2 different sets of back flow preventors.
                              the real trick is to dig up some old no-korode flux and a good torch. i use a piece of 1/4'' or 3/8'' plastic tubing to suck out the last bit of water. if in a real pinch us a union or ball valve to isolate the running water.

                              if you can fit a sawzall in the area. you can fit a propress.

                              rick.

                              [ 10-14-2005, 02:28 AM: Message edited by: PLUMBER RICK ]

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