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  • Traps on AC units

    While all the controversy has been fun, meanwhile plumbing continues.

    For twenty years I have installed traps on AC units that we fabricated out of copper fittings. A few months ago I had an inspector in Banning, CA reject them based on the fact that they are not smooth traps. I couldn't argue the point, because the UPC does state this, unless you could make the argument that these traps do not fall under the UPC. I didn't argue, because there was only seven.

    I replaced them with factory made copper traps.

    Has anyone ever run into this?
    the dog

  • #2
    ps. The smiley face on my thread was an accident.
    the dog

    Comment


    • #3
      dog,

      This is one of the questions I have to go through all of the time. If you refer to the 1994 UPC Interpetation Manual it states

      "The condensate drains mentioned (HVAC coil) are used in conjunction with mechanical equipment and are not classified as plumbing drainlines".

      It's a little confusing because if it terminates into a plumbing fixture you would think it is considered as an indirect drainline. Now that Section 815 of the UPC regulates the drainage of HVAC condensates line I wonder if it changes the Interpetation from 1994?

      Mark
      "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

      I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

      Comment


      • #4
        Utah,

        As I stated in my post, I probably could have argued that traps on AC units are not part of the plumbing system (they become part of the sanitary system, in my opinion, when they indirectly waste into the building drain system). I didn't because I was attmpting to get the building signed-off, and changing seven traps was faster and more economical. Sometimes you have to do what you have to do.

        I was just wondering if anyone else had ever run into this problem. I have installed them this way on federal, CA state, commercial, and school projects, and never had anyone dispute it.
        the dog

        Comment


        • #5
          dog, the inspector probably couldn't find anything else wrong and had to give you a fix-it ticket

          i have never had to buy the pre made traps. i've always used 2- 45 and a 90. some with vents, some with plugged c/o. never an issue.

          it could have been worse. 7 is better than 11.

          rick.
          phoebe it is

          Comment


          • #6
            The 2003 NSPC is not as picky. You can (in fact in the code the word shall is used) use drainage fittings for 1-1/4" and larger. No requirement to use preformed traps in any size.
            You'll find the applicable sections in

            9.1.10 , INDIRECT WASTES - Air Conditioning Equipment

            9.2 , INDIRECT WASTE PIPING

            9.4.3 , SPECIAL WASTES - Air Conditioning Condensate


            I realize the NSPC does not apply in most areas of the country, but you asked about what we all are up against where we live and work. I've never been told that I had to use a preformed trap, we've always made them out of fittings except for the smaller ones where we have occasionally used the ready made traps.
            ---------------
            Light is faster than sound. That's why some people seem really bright until you hear them speak.
            ---------------
            “If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a plumber.” - Albert Einstein
            ---------
            "Its a table saw.... Do you know where your fingers are?"
            ---------
            sigpic http://www.helmetstohardhats.com/

            Comment


            • #7
              dog,Years ago I had an inspector who wanted traps on a condensate line which was running to a dry well which had been approved for condensate. I argued that as the condensate line was not attached to the plumbing system a trap was only required if the manufacturer called for it. He agreed and signed off the job.According to the UPC Code Interpetation Committee a condensate line can be drained to an approved plumbing fixture but the drain is not considered an indirect waste and as such the UPC does not apply. I disagree an feel it is an indirect waste line.Mark
              "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

              I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Bob D.
                The 2003 NSPC is not as picky. You can (in fact in the code the word shall is used) use drainage fittings for 1-1/4" and larger. No requirement to use preformed traps in any size.
                You'll find the applicable sections in

                9.1.10 , INDIRECT WASTES - Air Conditioning Equipment

                9.2 , INDIRECT WASTE PIPING

                9.4.3 , SPECIAL WASTES - Air Conditioning Condensate


                I realize the NSPC does not apply in most areas of the country, but you asked about what we all are up against where we live and work. I've never been told that I had to use a preformed trap, we've always made them out of fittings except for the smaller ones where we have occasionally used the ready made traps.
                I'm not aware of any jurisdiction which uses the NSPC. That is a code which is written by the PHCC (Plumbing Heating Cooling Contrtactors). The only guys I know who even have one are those who are PHCC members or have been on the committees.Mark
                "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                Comment


                • #9
                  http://www.state.nj.us/dca/codes/for...adopcode.shtml

                  NJ Adopted Codes

                  International Building Code/2000
                  National Electrical Code/2005
                  National Standard Plumbing Code/2003
                  CABO Model Energy Code/1995 (Residential) and ASHRAE 90.1-1999 (Commercial)
                  International Mechanical
                  Code/2003
                  ICC
                  International Fuel Gas Code/2003
                  International Residential Code/2000
                  N.J.A.C. 5:23-7 Barrier Free Subcode and ANSI A117.1-1998


                  We are a little weird here, I think it is something in the water that flows down from the NYC/Newark area where all those chemical facilities, refineries, and drug companies are based.

                  My copy is sitting on the shelf across the room from me.
                  Last edited by Bob D.; 06-09-2006, 05:29 PM.
                  ---------------
                  Light is faster than sound. That's why some people seem really bright until you hear them speak.
                  ---------------
                  “If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a plumber.” - Albert Einstein
                  ---------
                  "Its a table saw.... Do you know where your fingers are?"
                  ---------
                  sigpic http://www.helmetstohardhats.com/

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Wow that is wierd. I have a copy as well but it is because I have belonged to the PHCC for 20 plus years. I did not think anyone was using the NSPC anymore.Mark
                    "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                    I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ToUtahNow
                      dog,Years ago I had an inspector who wanted traps on a condensate line which was running to a dry well which had been approved for condensate. I argued that as the condensate line was not attached to the plumbing system a trap was only required if the manufacturer called for it. He agreed and signed off the job.According to the UPC Code Interpetation Committee a condensate line can be drained to an approved plumbing fixture but the drain is not considered an indirect waste and as such the UPC does not apply. I disagree an feel it is an indirect waste line.Mark

                      in pa we use PVC made traps ,e-z traps and no traps.

                      PVC traps are made to the manufactures specs ,some traps need to be deeper .

                      e-z traps are a clear u tube and 2 PVC tees with 2 caps on each tee.

                      and then on units that the coil is on the supply side of the fan we sometimes do not put a trap .

                      all drain lines go to an indirect trap on a vent line.
                      Charlie

                      My seek the peek fundraiser page
                      http://observatory.mountwashington.o...nal&fr_id=1040


                      http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/conditions.php

                      new work pictures 12/09
                      http://public.fotki.com/hvachawk/

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK
                        dog, the inspector probably couldn't find anything else wrong and had to give you a fix-it ticket

                        i have never had to buy the pre made traps. i've always used 2- 45 and a 90. some with vents, some with plugged c/o. never an issue.

                        it could have been worse. 7 is better than 11.

                        rick.
                        Rick,

                        That's the way I read it, changed them, and moved on. I was just interested to know if this was a new trend, which I can see it is not.
                        the dog

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Bob D.
                          http://www.state.nj.us/dca/codes/for...adopcode.shtml

                          NJ Adopted Codes

                          International Building Code/2000
                          National Electrical Code/2005
                          National Standard Plumbing Code/2003
                          CABO Model Energy Code/1995 (Residential) and ASHRAE 90.1-1999 (Commercial)
                          International Mechanical
                          Code/2003
                          ICC
                          International Fuel Gas Code/2003
                          International Residential Code/2000
                          N.J.A.C. 5:23-7 Barrier Free Subcode and ANSI A117.1-1998


                          We are a little weird here, I think it is something in the water that flows down from the NYC/Newark area where all those chemical facilities, refineries, and drug companies are based.

                          My copy is sitting on the shelf across the room from me.

                          I've read on at least one internet site that Maryland has also adapted the NSPC. I'm not listing the website because I can't verify the source. Maybe someone out there who lives in Maryland or the vicinity, or who has time to research it can confirm this. This site listed New Jersey as the only other state to adopt it.
                          the dog

                          Comment

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