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Will Copper Become Obsolete

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  • #16
    Ralph
    In my area i haven't seen the use of pvc much (in commercial)because air plenums are common and penatrating fire rated walls and floors with plastic doesn't always get the ok.

    How can 2 1/2" or 2" copper be cheapier than steel? If you are using grooved fittings on both i don't see copper going much faster than steel (if any) Are you saying that the price of materials is similiar or are you figuring steel takes that much longer?
    At my company we do everything in steel (chilled water or hydronic heating) except sometimes we switch to copper when making the connections on a coil.

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    • #17
      The copper and fittings are a little more, but the total installation works out a little less. It's lighter, easier to handle, faster to sweat than thread, and you don't need a bazillion dielectrics for the coils. You don't have to drag the 300 up the stairs, get oil all over the guy's carpet, and you can use armaflex instead of fiberglass (in house vs. subbed).

      Someday they might even let us put in that orange sprinkler pipe.

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      • #18
        Ralph
        Are you doing residential instal or commercial?
        I will not argue that copper is faster than threaded pipe. But grooved pipe is definatly faster than threaded, sweat or welded.

        sweat maybe easier if you are only doing alittle bit of pipe.(in the large sizes aswell) just to keep it all copper. but if you are piping a couple hundred feet of 2 1/2" down a corridor how can copper be cheapier?

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        • #19
          Originally posted by PLUMBER JAY
          Ralph
          Are you doing residential instal or commercial?
          I will not argue that copper is faster than threaded pipe. But grooved pipe is definatly faster than threaded, sweat or welded.

          sweat maybe easier if you are only doing alittle bit of pipe.(in the large sizes aswell) just to keep it all copper. but if you are piping a couple hundred feet of 2 1/2" down a corridor how can copper be cheapier?
          t-drill and propress. it doesn't get much faster with copper. i also have vic. copper, but propress is much faster and the fittings are not that much more than vic.

          the t-drill eliminates the tee and 2 joints. all you need is couplings and 90's or 45's.

          sunday morning i have 2- 3'' and 1- 1.5'' backflow preventers and mains to tie in. i prefabbed all i could and come sunday at 6am i will propress and t-drill the point of connections and with any luck be at the family picnic come noon

          rick.
          phoebe it is

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          • #20
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            • #21
              Originally posted by PLUMBER JAY
              Ralph
              Are you doing residential instal or commercial?
              I will not argue that copper is faster than threaded pipe. But grooved pipe is definatly faster than threaded, sweat or welded.
              Almost all commercial. The only houses I mess with are mine and my dad's rentals.

              For some reason, grooved copper never really caught on around here. We use it on steel, though. I'll agree it's a lot easier than threading or welding.

              sweat maybe easier if you are only doing alittle bit of pipe.(in the large sizes aswell) just to keep it all copper. but if you are piping a couple hundred feet of 2 1/2" down a corridor how can copper be cheapier?
              If it's a long straight run, I'd consider steel. Usually those hallway runs have a branch every 10' for a coil or something, ups, downs, valves, vents, cable trays in the way, duct, turns, etc. Every one of those joints costs something.

              Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK
              t-drill and propress. it doesn't get much faster with copper.
              I love the T-drill.

              We ran out and got all the propress tools a couple years ago, and none of the installers ever used them. I think one of the service guys has it now for emergency repairs.

              What do you think of the curvo?

              I've been wanting to get one of those for a while, but I'm afraid nobody will use that either.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by AustinAlexandra
                Menstruate, thumb, and be quickest, for tomorrow we chute.
                Shae Drobushevich! I told you not to tend Joanne Liu's gastritis! Now you must refinance her to make up for your gamest behaviour.
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                is a domestic queerness? Then Lars Bonding crayons a nobler franc.
                Robert Nehorayan horrify to the brownie and instantaneously rescreen his inflow.
                Layne Flack ears traumatically when the issue devoices her economical see.
                Why is Larry Reynolds so to go? Because Cathy Hulbert gipsys our peskier poultice.
                Well, I guess that settles it.

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                • #23
                  I will not argue against propress because i havn't used it. and it does sound fast. But you can t-drill steel pipe aswell.(saddle tee) yes i know its harder to drill steel than copper.
                  But if you guys are going put propress in the conversation than what about (forget name) that system that is similiar to propress but is for steel pipe.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by PLUMBER JAY
                    I will not argue against propress because i havn't used it. and it does sound fast. But you can t-drill steel pipe aswell.(saddle tee) yes i know its harder to drill steel than copper.
                    But if you guys are going put propress in the conversation than what about (forget name) that system that is similiar to propress but is for steel pipe.
                    a saddle tee is not even close to the t-drill process. the t-drill does not require any extra parts to be bought. no fittings, just copper to copper. a saddle tee is very similar to an ice maker saddle tee

                    there is a similar system to propress. it's a sharkbite fitting. also another system up to 2'' that doesn't come apart for removal. can't think of the name right now.

                    the steel system i believe is just for fire sprinkler systems

                    rick.
                    phoebe it is

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                    • #25
                      The name of the steel system i have used is pressfit. I do believe it is for sprinkler systems but it was spected on a couple jobs for heating. If propress is similiar to install then i understand why you love it.
                      I think a saddle tee is better than a ice maker fittting but i suppose they have a similiar design

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                      • #26
                        Pex can not truly replace Copper, EVER. For commercial jobs you need copper (at least where I live) for fire rating/protection codes. Pex also has only 2/3's the flow rates of copper. Also, the fact that we already use PEX (Wirsbo or crimp rings) in residental where I live is already helping the cost of copper where it would have traditionally been used. Copper is proven, almost timeless and will last longer. It is more durable & recylable down the road. Perhaps in several years we'll see a plastic eqivilent of Copper produced in laboratories but nothing compares just yet.

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                        • #27
                          Hey dog, In Texas ive seen the immediate change this year from copper to pex. The whole industry down here is changed over cause of price. I like the use of the material it seems to be a great product ,but my only concern is the lack of plumbers using the go no go gauges and calibrating their tools we had to make it a mandatory thing on Friday to get your checks to check their tools. The residential service i think will suffer the most in years to come cause it is making it to easy for the homeowners to work on their own stuff with more ease. Thats my opinions

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                          • #28
                            I am a huge fan of IPEX Kitek and the crimping system.
                            I believe that this, or perhaps the next generation of it will end up replacing Copper pipe for water service.
                            Though it must first prove itself over time in the smaller residential systems.

                            In the end, we will always be using copper for one thing or another... It will never completely disappear.

                            We still use Lead in certain applications, and lead is the first material Plumber's ever used!
                            (It's also the reason we are called Plumbers! Lead = Pb. "Plumbum")
                            Last edited by Christopher Lambert; 10-19-2006, 05:44 PM.

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                            • #29
                              Re: Will Copper Become Obsolete

                              Originally posted by eee
                              you need to stop calling people DOG you are a grown man and you sound like an idiot!!!!



                              Settle down eee.


                              Plumbdog10 was referred to as "dog" on this site.

                              Plumbdog10 passed away from an aggressive cancer that took his life swiftly.

                              His presence here was respected by many, including rick. Lots of other members have usernames with reference to "dog" on this site.


                              You get a fff for not doing some research before drudging up a 3 year old thread.

                              The history of the subject was a good read.....and my oh my how things have changed:


                              Business was booming back then, and some plumbers were praising Kitech piping systems. That piping is now debunked and under a massive lawsuit putting all the plumbers who used it, out of business.
                              Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

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                              • #30
                                Re: Will Copper Become Obsolete

                                Originally posted by eee
                                you need to stop calling people DOG you are a grown man and you sound like an idiot!!!!
                                when i was the fire chief for this town my call sign was "top dog"

                                there have been times that my own relatives called me a "dog".

                                think about this;

                                a dog will protect you and your family to the death. call me a dog.

                                respectfully,

                                Vince

                                wanna bye my 3 legged dog. 25% off?

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