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  • Lithium Ion battery prices?

    Free batteries under the Ridgid LSA was an important factor for many of us in deciding the Lithium Ion tool we purchased. Recently replacement Lithium Ion batteries have started showing up on store shelves. Thought it would be interesting to compare some of these prices. I was in HD yesterday and Lowe's today. Both had the big Milwaukee 18V LI battery at $99.97. HD had the Makita 18V LI battery. It was $80.00, however I can't remember if it was the 3Ah or 1.5Ah.
    Unfortunately for those of us who would like to purchase extra Ridgid 24V LI or 18V LI batteries HD depot told me the Ridgid national parts supplier is the only option. HD customer service let me use their phone to call them and they told me that they could ship a Ridgid 24V LI battery that day at $199.00.I purchased the Ridgid the R931 24V combo set for $269 and will sell the drill, saw, charger, and free 14.4 impact tool on ebay and keep the two 24V batteries. I believe I will break even and the batteries won't cost me anything. It's a hassle but at an alternative of $200 each I'll go for it.
    Has anyone else seen new Lithium Ion batteries for any brands and what were the prices?
    Last edited by roadrashray; 10-27-2007, 07:57 AM.

  • #2
    Re: Lithium Ion battery prices?

    Never changes .... supply / demand curve. (which I know you understand very well). These 'technology' products will very quickly go from 'cutting edge' to 'commodity' and the producers have learned to grab what they can early on the curve. Even so, quality Ni-Cads are not cheap even now ..... HD has the Max 2.5AHr. 2 for $90. It really diminishes all the normal effort to find a 'good deal' and save ~$100. ... and then face a battery replacement cost =/> than the 'savings'. I probably would have gone with the Makita B&W Drill today but I'm betting that the Ridgid 18v L-I will do as well and that the LSA will save me in case of a weird problem 2 years out.
    DeWalt says their Nano/L-I will be on shelves in early November (1 batt & charger ~$160.). Can't hardly wait!

    Tom B

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    • #3
      Re: Lithium Ion battery prices?

      Originally posted by doubtingtom View Post
      Never changes .... supply / demand curve. (which I know you understand very well). These 'technology' products will very quickly go from 'cutting edge' to 'commodity'...
      Agreed. Don't think there is anything very much more expensive in the production of Lithium Ion cells vs. NiCad (short of the monitoring circuit...and the price for that will come way down as volume goes up.) As more factories come on-line and more companies join the competition prices will fall. Heck, if you look at where they were just a few years ago they already have fallen considerably. Just a couple years ago Lithium tool sets were costing $200 to $300 more than NiCad.

      Tool manufacturers are not going to be able to charge much, if anything more, for Lithium powered tools. It will go from a nice feature to a necessity to sell tools. At that point they will be priced just like NiCads have been.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Lithium Ion battery prices .... another query ??

        I now have a new Ridgid 18v L-I Drill/Driver and Ridgid 14.4v Impact Driver. I have the (2) 1.? AHr L-I batts and charger ... which will also charge Ridgid Ni-Cad batts. The 14.4 v Impact Driver came with a 'standard' Ni-Cad and a 'new-in-the-package' 14.4v Max 2.5 Ahr Ni-Cad.
        I mentioned this on an earlier thread, but need to pursue it again .... why would I not return the 14.4v Max batt for credit at HD and order another 18v L-I 1.? batt for use on both tools ?? Even though Ridigd Support frowns on this, I cannot imagine any sound reason why the 14.4v tool will not function absolutely fine with the 18v L-I batt !! .. (+3.6v doesn't seem like enough to damage anything).

        Some of you demonstrate very sound technical knowledge in this technology and I hope can offer comment to either steer me away from this approach or encourage it based on your knowledge of these tools and batts. I really need to make this decision now, or open the Max 2.5 Ni-Cad, charge it, and begin using it. At HD's price of ~ $80.for the N-Cad return .... the jump to a new 18v L-I batt is not nearly so painful!

        Thoughts??

        P.S. Geez ! There's a new 18v L-I on eBay tonight for $80. incl shipping. That's a straight trade for my Max 2.5 Ni-Cad ...

        Tom B
        Last edited by doubtingtom; 10-30-2007, 10:09 PM. Reason: New info

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        • #5
          Re: Lithium Ion battery prices .... another query ??

          Originally posted by doubtingtom View Post
          ...why would I not return the 14.4v Max batt for credit at HD and order another 18v L-I 1.? batt for use on both tools ??[/I][/U] Even though Ridigd Support frowns on this, I cannot imagine any sound reason why the 14.4v tool will not function absolutely fine with the 18v L-I batt !! .. (+3.6v doesn't seem like enough to damage anything).
          .
          .
          .
          P.S. Geez ! There's a new 18v L-I on eBay tonight for $80. incl shipping. That's a straight trade for my Max 2.5 Ni-Cad ...

          Tom B
          Two reasons, wear and fit.

          From my experience in RC, where people push voltages for improved motor performance, I can tell you the higher voltages, that a motor was not designed for, are tough on the motor. They typically last a considerably shorter amount of time.

          Lets look further into the "3.6v" increase. That is a 25% increase in voltage and power (P=V*I.) It is also a 25% greater potential...potential that can arc and burn a motor and motor control that was not designed to see that kind of voltage.

          Further, if you consider that the LiIon batteries are actually running 20 volts, it is actually a 40% increase. The actual numbers, could vary slightly but the point it, it is waayyyyy over specification.

          Secondly, there is the fit. Ridgid designed the batteries so the higher voltage cells would not reach the contacts of the lower voltage tools specifically to protect the tools from a customer who might try this.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Lithium Ion battery substitution ....

            I knew there were issues I skipped over ....

            1) the ~20v actual output of L-I batts
            2) physical fit .... although .... I was assuming that if the charger will charge both sets of batts 'as marked on the charger' that the connections were not an issue.

            Given the huge arc a 12v car battery (high current) can generate when shorted, I can accept that the 14.4v to ~20v differential can do damage in the Impact Driver motor.

            Thanks for the tutoring! I can still do a great deal by exchanging the single Max 2.5 batt at HD for a 2pk for additional $10.

            Tom B

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Lithium Ion battery prices?

              It helps to think of voltage like water pressure. More pressure and you get more flow. Think of the size of the water pipe as the resistance. The wiring and motor of a 14.4v tool was designed to flow a maximum amount of current based on the voltage it sees. They designed the wiring and motor and chose these components resistance based on the voltage range it would see. When you apply more voltage to this same sized "pipe" you get more current and heat. Depending on how much higher you go and the factor of safety they designed into the tool, you can have anything from shortened tool life to a quick failure.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Lithium Ion battery substitution ....

                Got it .... not so much completely new info, as re-emphasizing the likelihood of problems. I was hoping this amount of variation might be more like being able to 'safely' run your tires anywhere in the pressure range indicated ... not just at 32 psi. Too bad, but better 'safe than sorry'

                Tom B

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Lithium Ion battery prices?

                  I have seen alot of post lately on batteries, so much I was totally confused. I didnt want to read all the technical blah on some of the post. So I went to a woodworking show here this weekend. I ended up buying a 18v nicad dewalt kit with impact driver an hammer/drill. They wanted 289 plus tax.Went online an got it for 289 with tax an free ship. What I liked about dewalt was there brand, they have 40 0ther tools that work with both ni cad an lithium batteries.
                  So the Porter Cable/Dewalt/Delta guy told me Lithium for these tools will run about $130 a pop. He says expect for 2000 charges verse 600 and expect if you leave it on shelf charged for two months expect to go back and have all that same juice. I know these numbers may be skewed a bit but he wasnt pushing anything on me to buy.
                  On the other hand the bosch guy was but they have so fewer tools and there impact driver was giant.
                  FYI Western Tool Supply had about 10-15 represenatives there selling for them. Bosch,Delta,Porter Cable, an Dewalt.I dont think I even saw Milwaukee there.
                  Just like anything else they will come down an price and I have 600 charges left on two batteries before I will need to look at them and they will work with the same drills.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Lithium Ion battery prices .... another query ??

                    Originally posted by doubtingtom View Post
                    I now have a new Ridgid 18v L-I Drill/Driver and Ridgid 14.4v Impact Driver. I have the (2) 1.? AHr L-I batts and charger ... which will also charge Ridgid Ni-Cad batts. The 14.4 v Impact Driver came with a 'standard' Ni-Cad and a 'new-in-the-package' 14.4v Max 2.5 Ahr Ni-Cad.
                    I mentioned this on an earlier thread, but need to pursue it again .... why would I not return the 14.4v Max batt for credit at HD and order another 18v L-I 1.? batt for use on both tools ?? Even though Ridigd Support frowns on this, I cannot imagine any sound reason why the 14.4v tool will not function absolutely fine with the 18v L-I batt !! .. (+3.6v doesn't seem like enough to damage anything).

                    Some of you demonstrate very sound technical knowledge in this technology and I hope can offer comment to either steer me away from this approach or encourage it based on your knowledge of these tools and batts. I really need to make this decision now, or open the Max 2.5 Ni-Cad, charge it, and begin using it. At HD's price of ~ $80.for the N-Cad return .... the jump to a new 18v L-I batt is not nearly so painful!

                    Thoughts??

                    P.S. Geez ! There's a new 18v L-I on eBay tonight for $80. incl shipping. That's a straight trade for my Max 2.5 Ni-Cad ...

                    Tom B
                    Tom....Please tell me why you ended up with a 14.4 impact instead of a MaxSelect impact.
                    2-The question I always have on ebay is, how do you know it is new, especially with batteries? As far as I know you can't get LSA for Ridgid items purchased there.
                    3-Actually there is a very definate relationship with tire air pressure and ride weight. Ask Ford and Firestone and all the people who were injured because of driving on tires that had a lower than required air pressure because Ford wanted to give the explorer a softer ride.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Lithium Ion battery substitution ......

                      reverse order .......... totally agree !!!! Always sound tires on both vehicles, I use digital pressure gauge to recheck frequently, and tend to keep pressures near the upper factory recommended levels (even if the ride is a bit rougher). Even have Nitrogen (Costco) in wife's new Michelins ...

                      Yep ... eBay batts would not be first choice unless a great deal popped up. The LSA is too important for these pricey items, especially L-I.

                      May PM you shortly ........

                      Regards,
                      Tom B

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Lithium Ion battery prices .... another query ??

                        Originally posted by roadrashray View Post

                        1.-Tom....Please tell me why you ended up with a 14.4 impact instead of a MaxSelect impact.

                        2-The question I always have on ebay is, how do you know it is new, especially with batteries? As far as I know you can't get LSA for Ridgid items purchased there.
                        1. I believe the 14.4v impact was the free tool they were giving away with kit purchases.

                        2. Most of the tools and batteries you see on Ebay are sold from new separated kits. You do miss the chance to get the LSA but prices are much better than buying them individually. It is a thriving business and a win-win situation for the reseller and the purchaser.
                        Last edited by Disaster; 10-31-2007, 12:46 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Lithium Ion battery prices .... another query ??

                          Originally posted by Disaster View Post
                          1. I believe the 14.4v impact was the free tool they were giving away with kit purchases.

                          2. Most of the tools and batteries you see on Ebay are sold from new separated kits. You do miss the chance to get the LSA but prices are much better than buying them individually. It is a thriving business and a win-win situation for the reseller and the purchaser.
                          Disaster......you guys are funny, however I think things have gone a little far when you start answering Tom's questions for him. That's funny stuff right there!!!
                          2. Yeah, I sure know about ebay. In fact the 24V drill, charger and recip saw I bought in a R931 set to get the batteries will being going up soon. Hope to make enough from them and 14.4 impact that was part of deal to get the batteries for free. I'm just leary of buying LI batteries at $80-90 a pop. on ebay with no experiance or a guarantee from the seller. To many things that might not show up right away.
                          Last edited by roadrashray; 11-01-2007, 09:14 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Lithium Ion battery prices?

                            I bought a new Makita 18V Lithium Ion driver in June. Not impressed. Doesn't last half as long between charges as my old Ni cad 18V's, and one of the batteries is already toast.
                            Love the size and the weight however.
                            Did I just get a lemon or are all Lithium's "lacking" ?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Lithium Ion battery prices?

                              Originally posted by Ross Creek View Post
                              I bought a new Makita 18V Lithium Ion driver in June. Not impressed. Doesn't last half as long between charges as my old Ni cad 18V's, and one of the batteries is already toast.
                              Love the size and the weight however.
                              Did I just get a lemon or are all Lithium's "lacking" ?
                              Also hoping to see some comments from other users to see if your's is an isolated case. I also like the Makita design a lot, but went with Ridgid's 18v L-I. Too early to get a true feel for the 1.5 AHr L-I batt performance but OK so far. Won't have your level of experience until Feb/Mar '08.
                              At this point I prefer to trade-off size and weight of the ~1.5 vs ~3.0 18v batts.

                              Tom B

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