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  • Johnson Paste Wax VS Auto Paste Wax

    I have been reading on here for a while that I should be using only a NON Silicon based paste wax. The reasons seemed to be valid as silicon and wood seem to not be a good combination. But recently I have been checking out Norm Abrams web site and reading some of his comments and he recomends Auto wax and says he uses it on his cast surfaces. Now I have loads of respect for the experts here and there opinions but seems to me Norm is the defacto expert. Not saying I'm going to start using car wax as I have this huge can of Johnson and plan on using it , just bringing up the apparent difference in opinions. Any comments?

  • #2
    Re: Johnson Paste Wax VS Auto Paste Wax

    Have you also noticed that His Normness also seems to paint many of his projects and not stain them?

    Norm's great and certainly has forgotten way more than I will ever know but on this point I have to totally disagree with him.
    Teach your kids about taxes..........eat 30 percent of their ice cream.

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    • #3
      Re: Johnson Paste Wax VS Auto Paste Wax

      What are you waxing? It is true that car wax products can be very good for furniture/wood finish. So Norm is probably right. However; I would recomend Briwax. It is a great protective wax...mixture of Carnuba and Beeswax. Great stuff. I recomend that all of my clients use this stuff to maintain finish and patina.
      Mark

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      • #4
        Re: Johnson Paste Wax VS Auto Paste Wax

        I do believe many auto waxes are carnuba wax and bees wax based, not necessarily silicone based. Maybe those are the types of wax he was referring to??

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        • #5
          Re: Johnson Paste Wax VS Auto Paste Wax

          The statement he made was he uses ordiinary car wax. My question is does anyone actually know if silicone based wax will cause problems or have we just assumed it would. Maybe it is dispersed once it dries. Just my thoughts...

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          • #6
            Re: Johnson Paste Wax VS Auto Paste Wax

            Silicone is very bad for wood/furniture. It will contaminate wood. It will create build up. It is in many cheap waxes and dusting products. In my line of work it is one of the worst things we have to deal with....even after stripping you still can have contamination. Always use quality products. Bri wax runs about 14-15 bucks for a can but it will last the average family for years. There are other quality waxes however Briwax is readily available. Many car waxes have same make up and very available....I'm sure that is why Norm as well as folks like Bruce Johnson recomend these products...it is a thing of convienence.
            Mark

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            • #7
              Re: Johnson Paste Wax VS Auto Paste Wax

              Texan:
              I do a lot of auto detailing and can tell you that not ALL
              car waxes have silicone. That being said, it's not always easy to
              tell which ones do and don't as the makers don't readily divulge
              ingredients.
              You may have noticed labels on bottles of POLISH that point out that the product is "body shop safe". This means that the polish DOES NOT CONTAIN SILICONE....and for the same reason that woodworkers want to avoid silicone;
              i.e. it causes "fisheyes" in the clear topcoat and poor adhesion when used before adding the clearcoat.
              DO NOT CONFUSE POLISH AND WAX...they're not the same thing! (Polish is for cleaning surfaces and provides little or no protection).

              My advice would be to avoid auto wax all together if you're unsure.
              Many of the new generation of "waxes" are synthetics (polymer sealants, etc...) that use the name "wax" because the public identifies with the term.
              I would not use ANY of them on something that would come in contact with, and possibly compromise, any of my WW'ing projects.

              "Tried and true" is just that for a reason : it's proven over time to be effective. Stick with what's known to work well.

              Hope this helped and didn't put anyone to sleep.
              Last edited by Yossarian; 02-12-2008, 06:17 PM.

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              • #8
                Re: Johnson Paste Wax VS Auto Paste Wax

                timelessmbr, your point about Briwax and other products is well taken when referring to how to treat wood once a piece has been completed. However, texan123's point was that Norm was advocating the use of auto wax on the cast iron surfaces of his tools. Although some car waxes may not contain silicone many do. If a wax with silicone in it was used for this purpose the silicone will easily be transferred to any wood that passes over it's surface possibly cause a fish eyes look when the wood is finished. Unless the user is absolutely positive that their choice of wax has no silicone in it I would shy away from using auto wax on any cast iron tool and go with silicone free Johnson's Paste Wax or Minwax Furniture Polish. Just my .02¢ worth, YRMV.
                Teach your kids about taxes..........eat 30 percent of their ice cream.

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                • #9
                  Re: Johnson Paste Wax VS Auto Paste Wax

                  Not trying to add fuel to the fire as I don't plan on using Car wax anyway but after reading my Beismeyer fence instructions I ran upon this recomendation: Use Meguires M1611 auto wax on the fence surfaces and they even added it would be good for the table saw cast iron tables also. I could not find anywhere on the internet if M1611 contains silicone or not.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Johnson Paste Wax VS Auto Paste Wax

                    Texan,

                    Here's a link to Meguire's current paste waxes (http://www.meguiars.com/estore/search_results.cfm

                    The M1611 appears to be no longer available.

                    A quick read of the list shows that thier "Yellow" wax product contains silicones. Their Hi Tech and Cleaner waxes don't provide ingredient details.

                    From my point of view, I'd stick with what the experienced woodworkers are telling us. "Don't use automotive waxes!". While certainly there's some writings that suggest otherwise, I also know, from experience, that all to many times, articles are not written by the professionals themselves, but by hired copywriters who put thier assignments together based on notes. In the publications industry, it is not at all rare to find a bit of artist's license taken to ellaborate on simple terms provided by the engineer or professional. "Wax" can thus easily become "automotive wax" or even "Meguire's" if that is what the copywriter is most familiar with.

                    While I can't say that is the case here, I do know that after almost forty years in the business, I've seen it happen. The point is, one shouldn't take such details as "gospel". I'd go with the recommendations given here, they're usually the voice of experience.

                    Respectfully,

                    CWS

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                    • #11
                      Re: Johnson Paste Wax VS Auto Paste Wax

                      Hopefully this is the definitive last word, Just found a comment buried on Norm Abrams web site where he says definately use a non silicone based paste wax. Along with all the great experience here and now Norms statement I think this discussion is now closed...

                      Thanks again guys for you comments.

                      Texan

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                      • #12
                        Re: Johnson Paste Wax VS Auto Paste Wax

                        I was using topcoat for years and one day I heard about a product called SLIP-IT. I googled it and found the company and ordered a spray bottle. This stuff is great.Haven't had any rust problems and is this stuff ever slippery.Wood glides over it like it was on ice. I use it on all my tools and am pleased with the performance. I don't work for slip-it either.............Just a retired mailman having time now to play in my shop.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Johnson Paste Wax VS Auto Paste Wax

                          Originally posted by texan123 View Post
                          The statement he made was he uses ordiinary car wax. My question is does anyone actually know if silicone based wax will cause problems or have we just assumed it would. Maybe it is dispersed once it dries. Just my thoughts...

                          Yes, it WILL give your headaches, stay away.
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