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  • #16
    Re: New TS-3660 with fence problem

    Originally posted by forrey45 View Post
    But the right side is way out I would say by at least .025 to every square that I have on hand, 3 of them.
    Wow, that's even worse than mine. Supposedly their tolerance for this is .026", so you may be able to get a replacement sent out. Since you're a machinist - any idea what causes this? I'm thinking someone went a little crazy with an impact wrench on the assembly line - maybe on the tension rod bolt that adjusts the connection to the back rail? The metal bracket that the rod is connected to slips into the rear of the fence, and didn't seem like a nice clean fit when I first disassembled it. I wonder of that wasn't put in square, and someone forced it in slightly out of alignment with the slot?

    One other possible clue as to the cause - I've left that rod, and the cast handle, off the saw for a couple days, and now my measurements are about half as bad as they were initially. When I measured again last night with the feeler gauges and engineers square, I got anywhere from .007" to .009" - still high enough to bother me, but not nearly as bad as before, and almost tolerable. Could aluminum straighten out if left uncompressed for a while?


    Originally posted by forrey45 View Post
    O no hope I do not have to disassemble and return.
    Well I don't know about you, but unless they're paying me, I'm not disassembling a thing, except maybe taking off the wings and fence rails so it's easier to move. It's going to take a ride in the truck and will be wheeled right back into HD the way it is. I really, really hate to assemble another saw (just had back surgery a couple months ago, and have to work slowly, and only for short time periods), but I'm planning to keep whatever saw I get for a long time, and I don't want to be thinking about or compensating for some stupid defective fence everytime I use it.

    I'll be watching craigslist over the weekend, hopefully I can find deal on a good used saw, otherwise on Sunday it's probably off to Lowes to use my $50 off $500 on the Delta before it expires. If anyone has any suggestions on a new saw, or is near Raleigh, NC and has a used one for sale, let me know.


    Originally posted by forrey45 View Post
    I am going to bring my micrometers home on Monday and get a reading (had been planing on adding a router extension so will need to use that face)
    I was hoping to eventually get a router setup as well. I don't have a micrometer yet (and probably won't get one for awhile - as it is I'm in danger of being labeled a tool collector by the wife until I get this saw situation straightened out and finish a couple projects), so let us know what you find. Sounds like a definite issue with these fences. If anyone can snap a few shots of their fences, that'd be helpful too.


    Originally posted by forrey45 View Post
    I just checked my 6 or so year old Delta bench top with a tin fence and it is dead nuts true on both faces.
    Forrey.
    This is part of the reason I'm leaning towards the Delta - even though I haven't been hearing great things about their service lately, they have a long history of good saws to build on, and unless they're actively screwing up existing manufacturing and assembly processes, that should carry over for quite a while. Ridgid has much less of this to start with, though I will say they got very close to making a great saw.

    I'm starting to think a big heavy, steel Beisemeyer-style fence that locks only at the front is the way to go with my next saw. Harder to warp/twist/bend, etc., and only attaching to one side of the table eliminates another place for error to creep in.

    Also, Mark51 had mentioned the draft angle yesterday - I measured mine, and the top is around 1/64" to 1/32" narrower than the bottom. So this is probably contributing at least somewhat to the noticeable visual difference, but like I said yesterday, I've done my measurements on the aluminum fence body itself, without the cast handle or anything else attached, just to be sure.

    Good luck with your saw, and thanks for sharing your measurements.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: New TS-3660 with fence problem

      Well used my micrometers as soon as I got in tonight and it is pretty much as I assumed starting closest to the front of the fence and taking a reading at the top and then at the bottom in the same position, then the middle and the back.
      2.012, 1.990 = difference of .024
      2.012, 1.985 = difference of .027
      2.013, 1.984 = difference of .029
      The bad thing is it all (mostly) on the one face.

      Now as I do like the saw and would like to keep it if this problem can be dealt with will it be best to contact Ridgid or go and see my local HD store?
      Forrey.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: New TS-3660 with fence problem

        Originally posted by forrey45 View Post
        Now as I do like the saw and would like to keep it if this problem can be dealt with will it be best to contact Ridgid or go and see my local HD store?
        Forrey.
        I didn't have any luck with Ridgid support, but your fence is a bit worse than mine - it might be worth a shot, and would give you a chance to see the lifetime service agreement up close and personal, while you still have the leverage of returning the saw. If that doesn't work, you can always go to Home Depot and swap either the fence or the whole saw.

        I'm starting to think this is why people love the Beisemeyer and other heavy steel t-square fences, and are willing to pay those often ridiculous prices. I was comparing a few different ones today from Steel City, Beisemeyer, and Powermatic, and since they were setup properly (something I rarely see at Lowes/Home Depot) they were amazingly solid. I'd have to be doing something really wrong and/or stupid to get that kind of force against the fence - and if that's case I'd better just upgrade to the SawStop for my own good.

        Since these fences aren't soft like aluminum, they'll probably still be straight and strong 50 years from now. After seeing the problems Ridgid is having getting this fence square under controlled factory conditions, I'd hate to see it after 10 or 20 years in an actual shop.

        If you wind up not being happy with the Ridgid, Lowes has the Delta 36-979 for $449 - you just have to buy a fence to go with it. The T2 looked good for $150, so that's what I went with. Hoping to get it assembled in the next day or two.

        Good luck with yours - I almost thought they were kidding about that big .026" tolerance, but your fence is proof they weren't

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: New TS-3660 with fence problem

          OK, here is what you need to do. Remove the entire fence assembly from the saw and carry it back to the HD where you purchased it. Go to the returns desk and tell the associate you want to swap your fence for a another one because it is defective. Ask the returns associate to page the hardware associate and go with him/her to retrieve another fence from a new unopened box. Verify that the new fence is acceptable to you by trying it out on the display model if need be.
          If any of the associates give you any flack, ask them to summons the MOD (Manager on Duty). Explain to him/her that the fence if defective and you simply want to swap for another one. You do not have to go into the story of what customer support has told you. Just request the fence swap and let that be it.
          HD then will RTV the newly opened saw with the defective fence and return it to OWT (One World Technology) for credit. They will in turn replace the defective fence and sell it as a "Factory Refurishbed" plus take a tax write off.
          End Game - Everyone Happy
          sigpicSeldom Wrong, BUT Never in Doubt

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: New TS-3660 with fence problem

            Originally posted by robindone View Post
            First, I want to thank all those who contribute to these forums - the detailed information is extremely valuable - including the occasional problem/concern/etc that some have run into. This is going to be a bit long, but the details are important to me.

            I've been mulling over buying my first "real" table saw for quite some time now, and finally decided to pick up the Ridgid 3660 during the recent Home Depot sale - seemed like a bargain at $449.

            Everything went very well, until after assembly, when I was making some final adjustments to make sure everything was aligned properly, and noticed a relatively minor problem with the fence. I didn't think it would be a big issue to get a replacement, so I put in a support request from the Ridgid site. Their response has turned this into a much bigger issue, and made me question the value of the lifetime warranty if this is what they consider acceptable service.

            The problem: My fence is noticeably thicker at the top than at the bottom. The difference is relatively small over the short vertical face of the fence (about 1/64" or .015"), but it's definitely noticeable by visual inspection, and is consistent from the front of the fence to the back. I honestly can't think of too many ways this could happen, since it's a pretty solid block of aluminum, but it's definitely there, and is clearly not on the 2 floor model saws I've checked.

            The result is that it's impossible to set the face of the fence perpendicular to the table top. This probably won't be a problem for most rip cuts, but a taller fence will amplify the error, and I imagine it will be even more noticeable if I'm cutting tenons or other cuts that will rest on the face of the fence.

            Ridgid stated in their response that this amount of error is "well within" the tolerances for a saw, and included a reminder that this is a wood working power tool, implying that accuracy within 1/64" or 1/32" is not necessary when working with wood.

            I then asked what the tolerances were for this, and was told .026" - almost 1/32" on the fence alone, and with an auxiliary fence face added that's twice as tall, the error doubles to 1/16". I'm an absolute amateur at woodworking, but whenever I'm working on a project, I make every effort to keep the accuracy as high as possible, for as long as possible through the process. Errors tend to accumulate, starting off with an error of 1/16" won't leave much room for error on demanding cuts, and I'm sure there will be plenty of errors while I learn the craft.

            If I can't get Ridgid to send out a replacement, I'll probably have to return the saw, after having sunk at least 6 hours into assembly, cleaning, waxing, aligning, etc. Ridgid effectively said as much in their 2nd response - that I could take advantage of the 90 day return window. I can't believe that company policy is to tell customers to return the product and go somewhere else, especially for an obviously defective, inexpensive to replace component.

            Either way they're going to get a whole saw returned instead of just swapping a fence, and after I've already had to return a poorly built MSUV, will likely not be buying another Ridgid product anytime soon if I have to lug this 300 lb thing back to the store.

            So, what are your thoughts? Has anyone else seen this with an aluminum fence? Any suggestions for how to get it replaced?

            I appreciate any advice or suggestions - it's been a frustrating experience so far, but I'm hoping to find a way get things turned around and starting on some projects.
            I checked mine last night with a pair of dial calipers (19.99 at Harbor Freight). The top and bottom sections differed by about 10-15 1000ths of an inch). I measured with the dial calipers at an angle to minimize the delta introduced by not holding the calipers // to the beam and took about 10 measurements each side.

            My question is, isn't that well within tolerance for wood. We aren't building A380s/787s with our TS.

            IMHO taking back the saw for a Delta was a mistake. When I got the TS3660 I compared it to the Delta and Hitachi (which at the time had a 100 dollar gift card give away) at Lowes and decided feature for feature the Ridgid was a better saw for what I do

            The SawStop inventor said that when he took Delta his technology they balked and said safety does not sell... LOL first off I love my digits and considering all the after market safety accessories (GRR Ripper, grip-tite, etc) the market is there. That story alone lowers Delta a few notches in my book. It's like the builders of the Titanic saying it was unsinkable, or K-Mart laughing at Sam Walton, Xerox giving Apple/MS royalty free use of the mouse... Anyone ever hear of Schwinn bicycles...

            Anytime the big guy takes the little guy for granted when he/she has a revolutionary idea like Saw Stop you have to take pause. Don't get me wrong I like the Delta's but I think that if the people at the top running Delta ignored the Saw Stop guy we're about 20 years away from the demise of that company. Personally you can do allot better than a Delta (Griz/General/Powermatic).

            For those of us who are just getting into woodworking or can't afford a top of the line TS (et al) Ridgid provides quality products with high end features. I liken them to Kia when it comes to their power tool offerings (granted I don't own a Kia but I've heard they're great cars for the money)...

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: New TS-3660 with fence problem

              Originally posted by GreekGeek View Post
              My question is, isn't that well within tolerance for wood. We aren't building A380s/787s with our TS.
              Sure, for the things I'm going to build, it won't ruin the project if it's 1/64" out of whack. But my saw isn't made of wood, and neither are the rest of my tools. They're made of steel and aluminum, so I don't have to constantly check their accuracy. That's why I have a dial indicator, and an engineer's square, and feeler gauges. If I was happy with 1/32" I'd just use the plastic ruler and a sharpie from my office desk and call it good enough.

              If Ridgid can't manufacture an extruded aluminum part with accuracy an order of magnitude greater than what an amateur woodworker can get ripping lumber, they'll be lucky to have 20 years to go out of business.

              They obviously have a problem somewhere in their manufacturing or assembly process, and even if I was willing to tolerate that defect, their service was horrible, undermining the value of the lifetime service agreement. Speaking of bad business practices - apparently they'd rather have an entire table saw returned, instead of replacing a single part. That has to cost them some money. Not to mention they turned away a relatively brand-loyal customer. I even gave them a 2nd chance, which is probably more than a lot of people would do. That's not a great way to get established in a market. At least Delta has 50 years of solid table saw history to fall back on.

              Originally posted by GreekGeek View Post
              The SawStop inventor said that when he took Delta his technology they balked and said safety does not sell... LOL first off I love my digits and considering all the after market safety accessories (GRR Ripper, grip-tite, etc) the market is there. That story alone lowers Delta a few notches in my book.
              So you're buying the SawStop then? No? I'd imagine that has something to do with the $3500 price tag. I enjoy having 10 fingers too, but like all comparisons between safety and cost, this one comes down to risk analysis.

              With a very high degree of certainty, I can state that I will never lose a finger to a tablesaw. I can say this because the odds are very, very slim to begin with, because I'm aware of the risk and act accordingly, and because I have very infrequent exposure. I can't say 100%, but I can say 99.999%, and add or remove a couple 9s on the end depending on how often you operate the saw tired/distracted/etc, which I won't do. The numbers simply aren't there for the hobbyist woodworker to justify the cost of the sawstop, not unless they've have already eliminated the much more common risks.

              Originally posted by GreekGeek View Post
              Personally you can do allot better than a Delta (Griz/General/Powermatic).
              Not for this price I couldn't. I paid $449 for the saw, $150 for the T2 fence, and had a $50 off coupon, so I got out the door for $549. I wanted to actually see the saw before I bought it, so that limited me to what local dealers had - Delta, Powermatic, Jet, and Steel City. Steel City only had a cabinet saw at around $1000, though it was nice. Jet had a contractor saw but with cast iron wings it was about $810. Powermatic was around the same if not more I think. And I don't think the grizzly or general had all the feautures of the delta, even if I could have found a local dealer.

              I finally finished putting together the Delta last night, and though I haven't aligned everything yet, I don't think I'll regret the decision. The ridgid fence is a toy compared to the T2. The T2 is solid, heavy, steel, but slides far easier than the Ridgid did. I still need to measure and check everything, but on first glance it all looks square out of the box.

              Originally posted by GreekGeek View Post
              For those of us who are just getting into woodworking or can't afford a top of the line TS (et al) Ridgid provides quality products with high end features. I liken them to Kia when it comes to their power tool offerings (granted I don't own a Kia but I've heard they're great cars for the money)...
              So when it comes down to it, you (and me, and most other consumers) are doing exactly what the Delta top brass said we'd do? Of course we are - because it's the rational thing to do, when you objectively look at the numbers. I don't know all of the Saw Stop story, but I did try out the saw and had a look at the internals, and it's a completely different mechanism than your standard saw. It's a beautiful machine, and cut through a piece of oak plywood like it wasn't even there, but there's no way I can justify $3500.

              If it was an add-on feature, I'm sure Delta and everyone else would have jumped all over it. But it's not - it would be a completely separate line of saws for them to make. I'm sure they have run the numbers, and don't think they would sell enough of them to justify the cost. It would probably cannibalize their existing high end cabinet saw market, not add any new customers. The people buying them would be pros and cabinet shops who would either see reduced insurance costs or emergency room bills. Not Mr. Joe-Adirondac-Chair who's buying the $500 contractor saw.

              Sorry if this comes off as a rant - I just don't get how it's acceptable to use wood working tolerances for machined tools and equipment, especially brand new $500 tools. The Ridgid seemed like a decent saw, except for the fence, and possibly the herculift. But their service came off as smug and arrogant, something that could perhaps be expected if they had been building quality cabinet saws for 50 years - not pipe wrenches and plumbing tools.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: New TS-3660 with fence problem

                Hi
                Just an update on my fence situation. I did as Harley130 sugested and took the fence back to HD and they were more than willing to change the fence with the floor model but when I checked it with a square it was out on both faces.
                They gave me the number of the local service center, when I phoned I was told that I would have to drop of my fence and no I could not speak to the teck and explain my problem I would be put in line and it is a long line as I was told when asking about for an estimated time line.

                Today I phoned customer service line and the bottom line was being put in the hands of the service center or return the whole thing to HD for an exchange ???. When I said that if I was to return the whole thing I would not replace it with a Ridgid product the attitude seemed to be, to bad you feel like that, there was no trying to work out the situation to keep a customer, so now I have to decide as to keep the saw and fix the fence myself, I am more than able to do that or take back to HD and get some thing else and this may be what I end up doing after the " I don't care attitude" that I received from the service center and customer service line.

                I am now going to have to also take this into consideration on my next buys of a planer and jointer.
                Very disappointed.
                Forrey.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: New TS-3660 with fence problem

                  Same problems with HD/Ridgid. Purchased the 3650 a month ago. Showed up to purchase the saw and after an hour and a half of them looking everywhere for box 2 of 2, was told they would have to order it in for me. Manager told me he would have it by the end of the week, that was a month ago. I call every week to see if it's in and they always tell me no, call back next week. Finally called the manager again today and he said he would look into it and call me right back, that was 2 hours ago. Frankly I'm sick of looking at the giant box in my garage that I haven't even bothered to open and assemble because it's useless without box 2. I am currently considering just taking it back and going elsewhere, this is the worst customer service that I have ever experienced. No one seems to care about their customers anymore. Sorry, after hearing your experience I had to rant as well.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: New TS-3660 with fence problem

                    Originally posted by photok View Post
                    Same problems with HD/Ridgid. Purchased the 3650 a month ago. Showed up to purchase the saw and after an hour and a half of them looking everywhere for box 2 of 2, was told they would have to order it in for me. Manager told me he would have it by the end of the week, that was a month ago. I call every week to see if it's in and they always tell me no, call back next week. Finally called the manager again today and he said he would look into it and call me right back, that was 2 hours ago. Frankly I'm sick of looking at the giant box in my garage that I haven't even bothered to open and assemble because it's useless without box 2. I am currently considering just taking it back and going elsewhere, this is the worst customer service that I have ever experienced. No one seems to care about their customers anymore. Sorry, after hearing your experience I had to rant as well.
                    If I were you I would call them back and tell them you want to replace it with the 3660. And because of all the hassle you want it delivered and the old one picked up. As a last resort return for money back. Don't give up on a good product because of bad service.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: New TS-3660 with fence problem

                      belatedly, checked my ts2412 fence. no light visible between table top or fence when a machinists square is place on the saw. fence faces are exactly parallel to the fence "bracket" near the handle. nothing like the robindone photo.
                      there's a solution to every problem.....you just have to be willing to find it.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: New TS-3660 with fence problem

                        I currently have 2 3660s in my garage right now. Instead of just returning one with a defective part, I decided to purchase a 2nd one until finishing the assembly process.

                        Here's the problem. Both fences I have now have the same problem. The top of the fence is about .010 to .020 wider at the top. I have yet to call Rigid about this, but I would say that Its a serious problem.

                        I think of it this way. A .026 tolerance over 3 inch distance equates to a .234 over 27 inches. Which is the approxomate length of the fence (same part). I don't think you would have gotten any argument from customer service if the fence was 1/4 inch wider at the back end.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: New TS-3660 with fence problem

                          I currently have 2 3660s in my garage right now. Instead of just returning one with a defective part, I decided to purchase a 2nd one until finishing the assembly process.

                          Here's the problem. Both fences I have now have the same problem. The top of the fence is about .010 to .020 wider at the top. I have yet to call Rigid about this, but I would say that Its a serious problem.

                          I think of it this way. A .026 tolerance over 3 inch distance equates to a .234 over 27 inches. Which is the approxomate length of the fence (same part). I don't think you would have gotten any argument from customer service if the fence was 1/4 inch wider at the back end.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: New TS-3660 with fence problem

                            Hello and thanks for everyone who takes time to help around here. I currently have a 3660 set aside for pickup at my local HD. They also have a 3650 on hand. Has anyone had any issues with the 3650 fence? I dont see much difference between the two, is there any reason not to get the 3650 if it has a better/straighter fence than the 3660? Thanks Curt

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: New TS-3660 with fence problem

                              I too have purchased a 3660, and to be frank extremely happy with the purchase. I was really surprised with the quality of the table itself. The deference here is I knew I was going have to replace the fence. Look people, if you want dead on accuracy out of the box you will have to spend upwards of $2000 or more. Get a Delta Uni-saw or Powermatic. This is a great saw for the money.

                              I will be putting the Incra TS Fence on my mine. It is guaranteed accurate to .001 and is by far the best fence in the business and it retails for 399.99. www.incra.com I love this thing!

                              Just get a reality check and understand you got a great saw for the money and realize there is a reason why this it 550 and the professional tools start at 2 grand or more.

                              My 2 cents anyway.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: New TS-3660 with fence problem

                                Originally posted by Gette View Post
                                I too have purchased a 3660, and to be frank extremely happy with the purchase. I was really surprised with the quality of the table itself. The deference here is I knew I was going have to replace the fence. Look people, if you want dead on accuracy out of the box you will have to spend upwards of $2000 or more. Get a Delta Uni-saw or Powermatic. This is a great saw for the money.

                                I will be putting the Incra TS Fence on my mine. It is guaranteed accurate to .001 and is by far the best fence in the business and it retails for 399.99. www.incra.com I love this thing!

                                Just get a reality check and understand you got a great saw for the money and realize there is a reason why this it 550 and the professional tools start at 2 grand or more.

                                My 2 cents anyway.

                                Your reasoning escapes me, the fence should be square , period, it is a manuf. defect. Why not buy a hybrid saw like the 22124 CM, with a commercial Biesmeyer fence for less money and have a better saw? You could add a Wixey digital gauge for $99 to the Ridgid if it was square.
                                Your saw with zinc trunions and contractor design is not a good match to the Incra as your saw is not that accurate anyway.

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