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  • #16
    Re: You Guys are gona love this

    It is an extremely wild looking and performing SMS, from what I saw in that video. But $1300???!?!!!! Sorry...but NO. Even the Bosch's, as well as they perform and as high as they are rated, are only around 1/2 the price. Festool to me is too much of a kitsch boutique tool brand - they seem to cater to the people that believe money is absolutely no object, and will pay no matter the cost, just to be able to say they have the best, as decided on which tool cost the most. And Festool definitely does seem to cost the most.

    It does seem very well thought out and engineered, but the addition of only a few more (slightly unnecessary) features does not really give way to the thought process of double the cost of other saws.

    It's also kind of uuoogly, IMO. The green and black is one thing, but it seems very tall and narrow. I guess that's the point of compacting it for a smaller work space and shop, but I'd be worried about balance and stability without bolting it down.

    I'm going to be going with the Bosch in the future myself.

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    • #17
      Re: You Guys are gona love this

      Woodworkers Journal has a comparison of SCMS in the current issue. The Festool finished first but I think the Makita was the recommended choice as a better value.

      For $1300 it should go and get the wood itself - and some coffee too!

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: You Guys are gona love this

        I think they are made in Germany...that alone means so much in today's crappy everything made in china world.

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        • #19
          Re: You Guys are gona love this

          If it wasn't because I still want to buy a few more tools for my shop I would possibly consider this saw if it actually lives up to expectations. It seems to be incredibly well thought out and while a lot of it seems to be little details sometimes those little details make all the difference. I would love to know how accurate it truly is.

          The reason this thing is so expensive probably has more to do with the currency conversion rate than anything else. Imported european products are not cheap in the US now. Looking around this thing looks to sell for about 800euros. The euro is currently at almost 1.6 dollars which means comes to $1280.

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          • #20
            Re: You Guys are gona love this

            my question is are these festool tools worth the money??

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: You Guys are gona love this

              First, let me say that I work for Festool and I hope I don't offend anyone by replying to the thread.

              Before you shoot down the price tag you really need to see the Kapex in action. While the micro website shows off a lot of the cool and unique features of the Kapex, by using one in person (which you can do at most of our dealers now or in the near future since they are receiving their demo units) you can really appreciate the out-of-the-box accuracy.

              Gary Katz (http://www.garymkatz.com/ToolReviews/Kapex.htm) has ooh'ed and ahh'ed over the Kapex and he is probably one of the most well respected authorities on SCMS. And, he is not the only renowned expert in the woodworking industry that has raved about the Kapex. The reason for a 10"... we make PORTABLE power tools. At 47 lbs, this is a very light saw. In it's "special cutting position", it has a capacity that rivals most 12" saws. It is simply brilliantly engineered and designed to outlast and outperform other saws on the market.

              One thing that I don't see mentioned in this thread is it's unsurpassed dust extraction (up to 91% effective). That alone saves time (and money) in clean up and gives you the ability to work onsite and impress your customers with not making a mess of their house.

              The dual lasers can be independently "tweaked" to fine tune them to your liking using three axis pots.

              Are Festool power tools with their money? Speak to anyone who owns one and ask, don't take my word for it. If you don't know about it, there is an indepently run forum called the Festool Owner's Group which many guys who are anxious to share their experiences with our tools at http://www.festoolownersgroup.com. Once you've used a tool that just designed to work better, you'll realize that you've been doing things the hard way for so long. More accurate, less waste, work faster, power tools and accessories designed to work as a system, phenomenal dust extraction with all the tools, innovative features and capabilities, the guide rail system for saws and routers, the list goes on...

              Of course, my opinions are biased so I encourage you to talk to fellow woodworkers, carpenters and craftspeople to get their opinions. I hope each of you at least entertain giving our products.

              Faster. Easier. Smarter.

              Shane
              Last edited by shofestoolusa; 05-17-2008, 11:36 PM. Reason: Updated URL.

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              • #22
                Re: You Guys are gona love this

                Your first post and your pushing the tool, to sale. Me, I do find this a little tacky, close to being spam. But you didn't start the thread. I'm sure its a nice saw and all, but I like my Ridgid better. I don't carry my saws around, I wheel them around, easier. I can also buy a dust catcher for the saw, which should catch more than your 92% for $140.00, still under your price.

                My blade is 12"s, so I can cut wider and thicker pieces, in which I actually do, do....

                I have extensions, thats already with my saw. The saw sits at a perfect height for me, all of the time. Ahhh, and my Ridgid is very quiet. I can also run it at 40 below, how does your saw work at 40 below???

                But I'm sure, you won't understand me, because you believe in your saw, thats what cha sell....
                Last edited by garager; 05-17-2008, 09:21 PM.
                Great Link for a Construction Owner/Tradesmen, and just say Garager sent you....

                http://www.contractorspub.com

                A good climbing rope will last you 3 to 5 years, a bad climbing rope will last you a life time !!!

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: You Guys are gona love this

                  I was simply offering information to those who were seeking it. Definitely not trying to offend anyone with my post but it was on-topic and as you said I did not start the thread.

                  You know, I'm not sure about the specs for the minimum temperature for operating environment and I dare not make a guess because I was providing facts. I can say that our tools are tested under some of the most extreme conditions imagineable and will leave it at that.

                  With all due respect, Garager, that Fastcap Dust Hood you talk about in your other thread (http://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/sho...58&postcount=2) for $147 does not catch 91% of dust particles. There are a lot of particles left floating in the air and there is a distinct difference between particles and wood chips. But, in all fairness, that might be the right solution for you and others. Fastcap is a good brand and has a lot of smart products. Our two larger dust extractors even employ HEPA filtration (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hepa) which catch particles down to 0.3 microns, the human hair is about 80 microns. The Kapex can cut larger stock at 12 x 4" nominal which is greater capacity that your saw. In the nested position, crown can be cut up to 6-5/8". In the If I am I incorrect about the specs I quote for your saw, please feel free to correct me.

                  Sometimes bigger is not always better. I find it interesting that you say that you like your saw better but I doubt you have had hands-on with the Kapex since it does not debut until July 1st. And likewise, you will not believe me because that's what cha own. And, that's ok. My post was not for you but for those seeking information. PS - Woodworker's Journal June '08 rated the Kapex #1 in it's SCMS review.

                  I think all consumers should have the right to make an educated decision. Our saw may not be the right tool for everyone, there's a place in the market for all of these products. But in all fairness, the questions were asked and I tried to help answer those questions posed in the thread. Obviously some of you are curious because I see traffic coming to our website from this thread.

                  My sincere apologies to Garager and anyone I may have offended. I hope each of you find the power tool(s) that work best for you.
                  Last edited by shofestoolusa; 05-18-2008, 12:00 AM. Reason: Reference to Fastcap dust hood.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: You Guys are gona love this

                    I own a DeWalt 12" and I'm happy with it so far. Yes, this sounds like a well engineered top notch saw but the price really turns me off. There is really no need in my opinion to charge so much more for those innovations and specs. That neat little angle finder can't cost more than ten bucks to make if that! I don't want to bash this thing, I just find the price excessive. I'll bet they could sell it for $600.00 and still make a profit. My wife and I were shopping around for watches to mark our twenty fifth wedding anniversay recently. I like nice things and I understand paying more for expensive metals and design but in most cases I felt I would be paying for the name. My thirty nine dollar Casio runs on sunlight, receives a radio signal to keep it right on time and will display in the dark. Oh, and I can work a sledge hammer while wearing it without a problem. There wasn't a single expensive watch that would do all that! I'm sure there are folks who buy these tools and can justify the cost and enjoy the performance, I can't but thanks for letting me see what money can buy.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: You Guys are gona love this

                      Well put, Frank. Like I said, I think everyone has to make the right choice in power tools for their needs. This may not be the right saw for everyone but if you make your living behind a SCMS, it's definitely worth a look.

                      Regarding your comment about being able to sell it for $600 and make a profit, if that were the case then I suspect we would do that. I don't set the prices and don't even know the cost. I feel like most consumers have been lead to purchase on the price and not the value of a product. It shouldn't be about how much it costs, but instead about how much time it saves or how much more money you can make with it. Right?

                      IMO, a fair comparison with competing products would clearly show the higher ROI from our products. Not to mention that the guys who are selling their old tools are getting nearly what they paid for them so they retain their value probably better than any other power tool on the market. Don't believe me, check eBay.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: You Guys are gona love this

                        Originally posted by shofestoolusa View Post
                        IMO, a fair comparison with competing products would clearly show the higher ROI from our products. Not to mention that the guys who are selling their old tools are getting nearly what they paid for them so they retain their value probably better than any other power tool on the market. Don't believe me, check eBay.
                        That's great that they get a good return, but,

                        Q. Why would somebody sell a "quality" power tool that they use to earn a living?
                        A. 1. They are seriously strapped for cash.
                        A. 2. They no longer need the tool.
                        A. 3. They are upgrading to a tool that suits their needs better.
                        A. 4. The tool did not live up to it's hype.
                        A. 5. The tool has been a problem child.

                        I'm not trying to bash your product, but a tools resale value is not usually a factor in the purchasing decision.
                        I've made what seems like miles of cuts with my 8 year old DeWalt 708. Would not trade it for any other. Dead on accurate and heavy enough to be stable. And yes, it travels in the back of my truck from job to job.
                        ‎"I've never let my schooling interfere with my education" -Mark Twain

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: You Guys are gona love this

                          I agree with Frank.

                          Come on, 1200.00 I don't even consider that a fair price.

                          I would consider buying it if the saw said "Your Awesome" after every cut.
                          Anyone can tear a man down, few can build one up.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: You Guys are gona love this

                            All of those scenarios certainly seem plausible and I don't claim to know the answer for every person who sells their tools. I would like to think it's because they are all upgrading to newer models but the reality is that's probably only partially true. For instance, two of the new products we just introduced are newer generations of existing products.

                            I'm not saying that resell value should be a primary consideration but for those who want to have the latest and greatest, it's something to think about. And, in all fairness, I doubt all owners of our tools make a living with them. So, not everyone selling a tool is selling their "bread and butter". I know as more of a hobbyist myself, most of my power tool purchases came as the result of a need for a particular project. Keeping that tool for the long haul may or may not make sense.

                            What I can address are those things you list which would be of concern to me as a consumer. Our tools come with a 30-day money back no questions guarantee if you are not satisfied so if it doesn't live up to the hype (so to speak) then just return it. Quick, easy, painless. At least then you will have answered the question of whether the price is worth it to you. The tools come with a 3-year warranty and we carry replacement parts for long after a tool is no longer manufactured.

                            Most people aren't aware of it but we are the innovators of a lot of technologies that are now widely used in the industry such as the orbital sander, the first eccentric sander, the first cordless drill with a brushless motor, the guide rail system for our plunge cut circular saws, the Domino joiner and the list goes on. It's like a woodworking epiphany, it's all about finding a better way to do things.

                            Look, I understand that my claims can (and probably should) be met with skepticism due to my affiliation. Just talk to someone who owns one of our tools. I'll let the tools and their owners speak for themselves. I would rather answer questions than sell tools unless I start getting a commission

                            Tyman, it actuallys says "YOU DA MAN!" after every cut.
                            Last edited by shofestoolusa; 05-18-2008, 01:07 AM. Reason: Reply to Tyman

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: You Guys are gona love this

                              Originally posted by shofestoolusa View Post
                              Well put, Frank. Like I said, I think everyone has to make the right choice in power tools for their needs. This may not be the right saw for everyone but if you make your living behind a SCMS, it's definitely worth a look.

                              Regarding your comment about being able to sell it for $600 and make a profit, if that were the case then I suspect we would do that. I don't set the prices and don't even know the cost. I feel like most consumers have been lead to purchase on the price and not the value of a product. It shouldn't be about how much it costs, but instead about how much time it saves or how much more money you can make with it. Right?

                              IMO, a fair comparison with competing products would clearly show the higher ROI from our products. Not to mention that the guys who are selling their old tools are getting nearly what they paid for them so they retain their value probably better than any other power tool on the market. Don't believe me, check eBay.
                              I want to respond but all my thoughts will have you on the defensive, hope you don't think I am being disrespectful. Given your job title and how well you have represented yourself here, I am surprised that you do not know the production costs. Cost is a deciding factor for many people and the innovations and contribution to the industry do not justify a higher price tag in my opinion. I think if this saw was priced close to the competition it's selling points would give it the edge and you folks would still make a killing on volume alone. I'm not suggesting that a Mercedes be priced to compete with a Chevy, but the complications and fine features of your saw cannot possibly justify a price that is double the rest. Like I posted earlier, I'm good with what I have and I can appreciate the many benefits of what you have offered here, I just think if it was priced at let's say $700.00 it would be an easy sell. Maybe you could suggest to your superiors some of our feedback and remind them of the present condition of our economy. Best of luck.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: You Guys are gona love this

                                You never offended me and I hope I didn't offend you either. Its just funny, shortly after this saw is mentioned in here, someone from the company comes around and starts to somewhat brag about this saw. That is how spammers are doing their business these days. I'm not saying your spam, it just looks familiar. So how and why did you find us? If I was to go to Ryobi, Dewalt, Hitachi, etc, forums, would I find another topic such as this one there, whether or not your the responder or someone else for your company.

                                You see, the Plumbers just went thru a similar situation, which in turn got very heated up. The topic was bidets, this is a dead ringer of that discussion. They were not selling anything, but were pushing their bidet beliefs. So, maybe at least one person would get extremely curious and go off and buy a bidet, hoping it was theirs. But they never came right out and said, we'll sell you our bidets for this much $$$$, that would be spam.

                                Anyhow, I have 3 saws, used just about every day. At half the cost of your saw or even lesser than that and I have made a lot of money from all of them. And to resale, nope I'll just keep making more money with my saws. Then when I'm done with them, I'll give them away or they go to the scrap pile.

                                The cost of your saw is way to high, but theres no way I'm going to tell some company what they should sell them for, your profit margins are up to you. I do feel that the quality of my saws are right up there, shoot they never break down, so far. My newest saw is 3 yrs old now.

                                But we must remember something here, I build homes and big garages. I have used many, many saws. I do understand what comparison actually means, because I have been there. Drop your price tag at least $400.00, then I'll start to consider buying your saw. If you then tell me, "well your paying for quality".

                                Which in turn, a statement like that, would tell me, that no matter what saw I buy/own other then yours, all of mine are junk in comparison. But yet I have a saw thats, gosh lets see, 14 years old, cuts just fine, cuts a perfect miter. Thats what I expect my tools to do and thats perform for a long time. That 14 yr old saw cost me, I believe $400.00. Not to shabby for a non quality saw, wouldn't you think.

                                The nice thing about being a contractor is, I know a whole lot of other contractors. And we do share tools and experiences about our tools. If I pop up on another contractors job site, you can bet on me, I'll be using a tool of his/hers, just to see how well it operates. Enough of my babbling, I'm done here.
                                Great Link for a Construction Owner/Tradesmen, and just say Garager sent you....

                                http://www.contractorspub.com

                                A good climbing rope will last you 3 to 5 years, a bad climbing rope will last you a life time !!!

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