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  • Battery compatibility

    Will my older (3 years old or so) 18 volt Ni-Cad tools work with the new 24 volt lithium batteries? If so, will the old charger work to charge the lithium batteries?

  • #2
    Re: Battery compatibility

    Originally posted by wadswob View Post
    Will my older (3 years old or so) 18 volt Ni-Cad tools work with the new 24 volt lithium batteries? If so, will the old charger work to charge the lithium batteries?
    No and No........however your tools will work fine and should have improved performance with the 18V lithium batteries. According to a posting from ProBrand on this forum the Nicad charger will charge 18V LI batts. I tried charging a 18V LI batt on a Nicad charger and it sounded funny and continued to make surging noises so I have never done that again.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Battery compatibility

      Originally posted by roadrashray View Post
      No and No........however your tools will work fine and should have improved performance with the 18V lithium batteries. According to a posting from ProBrand on this forum the Nicad charger will charge 18V LI batts. I tried charging a 18V LI batt on a Nicad charger and it sounded funny and continued to make surging noises so I have never done that again.
      I thought the last word on the charger issue was go right ahead and charge your lithium batteries on the older nicad chargers? Probrand reassured us and gave the end all response. I believe you what you wrote, so was he wrong, will it cause damage because it does not have the proper circuitry?

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Battery compatibility

        Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
        I thought the last word on the charger issue was go right ahead and charge your lithium batteries on the older nicad chargers? Probrand reassured us and gave the end all response. I believe you what you wrote, so was he wrong, will it cause damage because it does not have the proper circuitry?
        Frank......I have to assume he was correct because as I'm sure you remember he stated the input came from Ridgid engineers.
        I am just stating my experiance.Twice I tried charging 18V LI batts in the 18V twin charger with the cooling fans and didn't like the experiance. If I remember correctly the fans cycled continuously on and off and something else was going on that made me feel uncomfortable with the process. The idea was to reduce the number of chargers we carry to the job site. wwe just went back to carrying the LI chargers.

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        • #5
          Re: Battery compatibility

          Originally posted by roadrashray View Post
          Frank......I have to assume he was correct because as I'm sure you remember he stated the input came from Ridgid engineers.
          I am just stating my experiance.Twice I tried charging 18V LI batts in the 18V twin charger with the cooling fans and didn't like the experiance. If I remember correctly the fans cycled continuously on and off and something else was going on that made me feel uncomfortable with the process. The idea was to reduce the number of chargers we carry to the job site. wwe just went back to carrying the LI chargers.
          I don't want to reopen that can of worms but I tend to believe you're right and not the engineers! I believe there is special circuitry involved to protect and monitor the lithiums and that is not present in the older nicad chargers.Your experience is proof that the older charger was not designed with the purpose of charging lithium batteries. I guess Ridgid is either dealing with warranty issues for damaged lithiums and or nicad chargers, or these items are surviving somehow? I think you did a very wise thing by going back to the proper chargers.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Battery compatibility

            24v lithium-ion battery has its own special charger. It looks physically different than the regular nicad chargers.

            The 18v lithium-ion battery requires a lithium-ion battery charger. The single base chargers
            that have a lithium-ion battery decal are ok, the older nicad only chargers should not be used for lithium-ion batteries, this means the single base or dual base with fan chargers.

            The single base charger on the left side where the led indicators are located, have the words "Lithium-ion and nicad" on the bottom of the decal. This is ok for any 9.6v-18v nicad or lithium-ion battery that ridgid currently offers.

            the older and newer single base chargers look alike but are different!
            If it does not say lithium-ion on the front DO NOT charge lithium-ion batteries or there will be damage!

            One more time for those of you who read poorly:

            Do not charge lithium-ion batteries on nicad battery chargers! The dual base charger [with the fans] does not support lithium-ion batteries! Only the single base charger that has lithium-ion on the front decal supports lithium-ion batteries. The older single base charger without the word lithium-ion on its front only supports nicad batteries.

            Cactus Man
            Last edited by cactusman; 07-13-2008, 07:07 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Battery compatibility

              Originally posted by cactusman View Post
              24v lithium-ion battery has its own special charger. It looks physically different than the regular nicad chargers.

              The 18v lithium-ion battery requires a lithium-ion battery charger. The single base chargers
              that have a lithium-ion battery decal are ok, the older nicad only chargers should not be used for lithium-ion batteries, this means the single base or dual base with fan chargers.

              The single base charger on the left side where the led indicators are located, have the words "Lithium-ion and nicad" on the bottom of the decal. This is ok for any 9.6v-18v nicad or lithium-ion battery that ridgid currently offers.

              the older and newer single base chargers look alike but are different!
              If it does not say lithium-ion on the front DO NOT charge lithium-ion batteries or there will be damage!

              One more time for those of you who read poorly:

              Do not charge lithium-ion batteries on nicad battery chargers! The dual base charger [with the fans] does not support lithium-ion batteries! Only the single base charger that has lithium-ion on the front decal supports lithium-ion batteries. The older single base charger without the word lithium-ion on its front only supports nicad batteries.

              Cactus Man
              Cactus........I would agree completely with your post....HOWEVER.....this issue raged on here for a couple of weeks a few months ago. Finally Josh and ProBrand posted a statement that they had talked with Ridgid engineers and they stated that the circuitry in the 18V LI batts allowed them to be charged on the older Nicad battery chargers. My attempt was made after their declaration and I am just posting my results.
              I read just fine! You go argue with Josh and ProBrand. I have had enough of that contentious issue.
              Below is a readout of Josh's post.........Sorry it is not in the same format, however it shows what was stated as the final word from Ridgid and the moderators of this forum at that time.


              02-01-2008, 09:59 AM
              Josh
              Administrator Occupation: RIDGID Webmaster
              Years Experience: 8
              Location: Elyria, OH
              Join Date: Dec 2005
              Posts: 1,887
              Blog Entries: 5

              Re: What happened to Josh's statement?

              --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

              Ray, I merged all 6 threads into one. I was sick of having to reply to 6 different threads about one topic... now we have another one Please refer back to this thread...

              http://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15552

              (closing this thread.. not because I am trying to hide it but because I am trying to keep it all in the thread linked above) Please post to the thread above and quit opening new threads.

              Heres theres the statement again so you see I'm not trying to bury it.

              "All Ridgid 18-Volt Lithium Ion batteries have been designed with redundant safety features that protect the battery during charging. As such, all Ridgid 18-Volt Lithium Ion Batteries may be safely charged on any existing Ridgid battery charger. Should you have any questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to contact Ridgid Customer Service at 1-800-4-RIDGID."
              Last edited by roadrashray; 07-14-2008, 07:51 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Battery compatibility

                "Do not charge lithium-ion batteries on nicad battery chargers! The dual base charger [with the fans] does not support lithium-ion batteries! Only the single base charger that has lithium-ion on the front decal supports lithium-ion batteries. The older single base charger without the word lithium-ion on its front only supports nicad batteries."

                Cactus Man

                I think the above statement makes perfect sense, but it was not what were were told! All this means is that if you are correct as I and others believe, and they follow the advice of Ridgid engineers damage and or fire may occur. I also remember perfectly what was said, and it did not include the "decal", they said any charger would safely charge lithiums enev the older nicads.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Battery compatibility

                  Most LiIon batteries are now manufactured with internal safety circuits, which will limit charge/discharge current and prevent overcharging and complete discharge. Either case can make the battery unstable, and it may bulge, leak or explode. Sometimes it blows up later when the damage is already done and someone's assuming that they are taking a safe and workable battery with them.

                  There were some cases a few years ago, where people had cell phones explode in their hands. At least the official conclusion was that it happened because of pirated replica batteries that didn't have a correctly working safety circuit, if any at all.

                  Note that LiIon will start aging right out of factory, and it has a limited life span rather regardless of how much you use it. NiX takes much more abuse, but has its limitations, most notably memory effect.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Battery compatibility

                    I don't think memory is an issue with today's NiCd batteries. I've never experienced the problem. I have a couple of old batteries that don't hold their charge as well as they used to, but that has nothing to do with memory. If I run them fresh off the charger, they work OK. If I leave them for a couple of weeks, they run down quicker than a comparable newer battery.

                    As for Lithium Batteries. If you use Lithium batteries, use the correct charger. THEY ARE DANGEROUS if not treated properly. Take a little extra care and effort to use the right equipment. Only an idiot does not use the right equipment when they understand the potential dangers. Safety glasses, shoes, helmets, masks are all safety items we use when the situation calls for them, treat the Li Charger in the same way.

                    I don't care what the Ridgid Engineers say. They can be wrong. Even if they are right, I think they gave bad information. Lithium batteries continue to generate heat if continued to be charged when 'full'. Even on a trickle charge they will slowly get hotter and hotter until the chemical reaction within the battery becomes self sustaining, and accelerates the heat generation. If I remember correctly, the temperature can get up to 4,000 F. Obviously this will melt and weaken the casing, with a possible explosion from the built-up pressure. Bits will fly out, and are hot enough to ignite almost anything they land on.

                    From their statement, I assume the ridgid batteries have an internal contact that breaks when the battery reaches full charge to prevent it taking additional charge if incorrectly used on a 'non Li-Charger' which goes into trickle mode when it senses a high temperature. I hope it does, otherwise the Ridgid advice is just criminal. If for some reason something goes wrong with this circuit breaker, such as it fuses together, you will never know it and be exposed to a potentially dangerous situation if you subsequently use the wrong charger.

                    The Li-Charger is designed with it's own safety features to prevent damage to the battery, property, and people. These safety features are not present on the older chargers. I don't know the charger design features, but I would expect it to have 2 shut-off switches (just in case one fails). 1) When the battery reaches a set voltage, and 2) when the battery temperature exceeds a certain level. If you use a NiCd charger you will not have these safety features and be reliant on just the mechanism in the battery. The battery mechanism is probably not designed to prevent overcharge damage to the battery, but is more probably just a safety mechanism to prevent a catastrophy.

                    By using a NiCd charger you could be slowly damaging the battery and also be exposing yourself to a potentially dangerous situation. They don't put the safety features in the Li-Charger for no good reason - Make sure you use them!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Battery compatibility

                      Yes most Li chargers also have their own safety features, but at least here all Li batteries intended for handheld units must also have internal protection against overcharge and deep discharge.

                      One thing to consider, if you have new NiMH batteries they may not fare too well with an old NiCd charger either. MH lacks the voltage drop near the full charge status, which signals most Cd chargers to switch to trickle charge.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Battery compatibility

                        Ni-MH cells don't charge well at all in a charger designed for just Ni-Cad cells. You really want a very close match between the cells in a given battery and the charger. Some of the newer batteries have chips that can let the charger know about the internals of the battery and also history and temp. For such a battery to recharge safely the charger needs to be one which reads this info and adjusts accordingly. If in doubt, always check before charging a battery. I really try hard to exact match battery with charger.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Battery compatibility

                          Originally posted by Woussko View Post
                          Ni-MH cells don't charge well at all in a charger designed for just Ni-Cad cells.
                          Or much better vice versa.

                          Currently we don't even get much of the NiCd variety anymore... have to check carefully, if you really need it... chargers are hard to locate too except as combo chargers that have the NiCd option. Seldom are they automatic, and even rarer is the unit that also works with LiIOn. Guess they have decided that NiCd is rather phased out and the mainload of existing specimens are at the end of their journey anyway.
                          ยจ
                          Well, an old Philips NiCd charger worked superiorly with SLA... which is a different animal anyway. Perhaps the most forgiving battery design is the liquid lead-acid... and you can screw that up, too.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Battery compatibility

                            Originally posted by cactusman View Post
                            The single base charger on the left side where the led indicators are located, have the words "Lithium-ion and nicad" on the bottom of the decal. This is ok for any 9.6v-18v nicad or lithium-ion battery that ridgid currently offers.
                            So the charger that comes with the 18v Lithium tools (I'm looking at the R86006) will also charge the NiCad in the 14.4v impact driver?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Battery compatibility

                              Yes, hope you like the tool if you get it.

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