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  • #16
    Re: Bosch 36V or Milwaukee 28V?

    I have no idea how DeWalt, Bosch and Milwaukee truly compare in the high voltage department.

    To Milwaukee's credit, I've rarely seen bad comments or reviews on their V28 system. If I hadn't gone with 36V DeWalt, they were my next choice. DeWalt have been working out great for me though. There are some mixed reviews floating out there, but not experienced any problems myself.

    I'm sure the Bosch tools are great, but my biggest beef with them is that their tool selection in 36V is really small, and there seem to be no signs of them doing anything major with the line.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Bosch 36V or Milwaukee 28V?

      I'm leaning towards Bosch. Milwaukee has a bad reputation about 28V batteries and warranty in the past. I've had a Bosch 18V for awhile and though I'd like more power and runtime-the batteries have done what they're supposed too and I had an issue with one that Bosch sent a new one to my door in 2 days with no questions asked. Didn't even ask for the old battery.

      And they sent me parts for a circular saw that I LOST for nothing. Not even postage.

      J.C.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Bosch 36V or Milwaukee 28V?

        If I need something more than 18 volts , I'd go elec.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Bosch 36V or Milwaukee 28V?

          Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
          I'm leaning towards Bosch. Milwaukee has a bad reputation about 28V batteries and warranty in the past. I've had a Bosch 18V for awhile and though I'd like more power and runtime-the batteries have done what they're supposed too and I had an issue with one that Bosch sent a new one to my door in 2 days with no questions asked. Didn't even ask for the old battery.

          And they sent me parts for a circular saw that I LOST for nothing. Not even postage.

          J.C.

          Here is the Milwaukee warranty on their V-technology batteries (V28 & V18) as per their website:

          "Every MILWAUKEE V™-technology Li-Ion Battery Pack and Li-Ion XC Battery Pack is covered by an initial 1000 Charges/2 Years free replacement warranty. This means that for the earlier of the first 1000 charges or two (2) years from the date of purchase/first charge, a replacement battery will be provided to the customer for any defective battery free of charge. Thereafter, customers will also receive an additional warranty on a pro rata basis up to the earlier of the first 2000 charges or five (5) Years from the date of purchase/first charge. This means that every customer gets an additional 1000 charges or three (3) years of pro rata warranty on the V™-technology Li-Ion Battery Pack and Li-Ion XC Battery Pack depending upon the amount of use. During this additional warranty period, the customer pays for only the useable service received over and above the first 1000 Charges/2 years, based on the date of first charge and number of charges found on the battery pack via Milwaukee’s V™-technology Service Reader or through XC Battery Pack read-out system."


          "Also, their tool warranty is as follows: Every MILWAUKEE product is warranted to the original purchaser only to be free from defects in material and workmanship. Subject to certain exceptions, MILWAUKEE will repair or replace any part on a product which, after examination, is determined by MILWAUKEE to be defective in material or workmanship for a period of five (5) years* after the date of purchase. Return the product and a copy of proof of purchase to a MILWAUKEE factory Service /Sales Support Branch location or MILWAUKEE Authorized Service Station, freight prepaid and insured. This warranty does not apply to damage that MILWAUKEE determines to be from repairs made or attempted by anyone other than MILWAUKEE authorized personnel, misuse, alterations, abuse, normal wear and tear, lack of maintenance, or accidents. "


          Now just to note: I really think that the internet tends to amplify reports of "bad batteries."
          I have had 2 DeWalt XRP batteries go bad on me in the past (at different times) and because I recevied exceptional service when they were replaced (replaced at the counter, no charge, at the local DeWalt service center no questions asked other then checking to make sure the batteries were bad by putting them on the charger), it doesn't bug me one bit, nor will I come on every tool related discussion board and blab about it because I know batteries are something that can go if mistreated and/or something happens. The Batteries these tools have are pretty robust in the abuse they can handle but that can only go on for so long so it doesn't surprise me if the odd one goes once and a while.

          As for my MIlwaukee V28 set I have 3 batteries (bought an extra one, plus I got a 4th one when I bought my V28 right angle drill set 2 monthes ago) that have been USED - not just sitting in my van, but used, and I have yet to test the warranty policy on my batteries. And this is now in just over 2 years of ownership. These batteries have a microchip in them that records their date of first use, the number of charges, how hot they have gotten - those types of things. You have a problem with them, you take them into a service center, they hook it up to their diagnostic machine and if you're under the 2 years or 1000 charges and you get a new battery. It's pretty "fair" when you think about it.

          I'm curious where you got your information about "bad V28 batteries ?"

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Bosch 36V or Milwaukee 28V?

            Originally posted by Scott K View Post
            Here is the Milwaukee warranty on their V-technology batteries (V28 & V18) as per their website:

            "Every MILWAUKEE V™-technology Li-Ion Battery Pack and Li-Ion XC Battery Pack is covered by an initial 1000 Charges/2 Years free replacement warranty. This means that for the earlier of the first 1000 charges or two (2) years from the date of purchase/first charge, a replacement battery will be provided to the customer for any defective battery free of charge. Thereafter, customers will also receive an additional warranty on a pro rata basis up to the earlier of the first 2000 charges or five (5) Years from the date of purchase/first charge. This means that every customer gets an additional 1000 charges or three (3) years of pro rata warranty on the V™-technology Li-Ion Battery Pack and Li-Ion XC Battery Pack depending upon the amount of use. During this additional warranty period, the customer pays for only the useable service received over and above the first 1000 Charges/2 years, based on the date of first charge and number of charges found on the battery pack via Milwaukee’s V™-technology Service Reader or through XC Battery Pack read-out system."


            "Also, their tool warranty is as follows: Every MILWAUKEE product is warranted to the original purchaser only to be free from defects in material and workmanship. Subject to certain exceptions, MILWAUKEE will repair or replace any part on a product which, after examination, is determined by MILWAUKEE to be defective in material or workmanship for a period of five (5) years* after the date of purchase. Return the product and a copy of proof of purchase to a MILWAUKEE factory Service /Sales Support Branch location or MILWAUKEE Authorized Service Station, freight prepaid and insured. This warranty does not apply to damage that MILWAUKEE determines to be from repairs made or attempted by anyone other than MILWAUKEE authorized personnel, misuse, alterations, abuse, normal wear and tear, lack of maintenance, or accidents. "


            Now just to note: I really think that the internet tends to amplify reports of "bad batteries."
            I have had 2 DeWalt XRP batteries go bad on me in the past (at different times) and because I recevied exceptional service when they were replaced (replaced at the counter, no charge, at the local DeWalt service center no questions asked other then checking to make sure the batteries were bad by putting them on the charger), it doesn't bug me one bit, nor will I come on every tool related discussion board and blab about it because I know batteries are something that can go if mistreated and/or something happens. The Batteries these tools have are pretty robust in the abuse they can handle but that can only go on for so long so it doesn't surprise me if the odd one goes once and a while.

            As for my MIlwaukee V28 set I have 3 batteries (bought an extra one, plus I got a 4th one when I bought my V28 right angle drill set 2 monthes ago) that have been USED - not just sitting in my van, but used, and I have yet to test the warranty policy on my batteries. And this is now in just over 2 years of ownership. These batteries have a microchip in them that records their date of first use, the number of charges, how hot they have gotten - those types of things. You have a problem with them, you take them into a service center, they hook it up to their diagnostic machine and if you're under the 2 years or 1000 charges and you get a new battery. It's pretty "fair" when you think about it.

            I'm curious where you got your information about "bad V28 batteries ?"
            Did 2 separate searches. One for Milwaukee V28 problems (or something like that). Then Bosch V36 problems. (also)

            You get alot of reviews (Amazon) about Milwaukee problems. Some might be older & things possibly corrected. The reviews also state how Milwaukee interprets everything as "normal wear" and not covered under warranty. Even chargers.

            Let me know if you find otherwise or any negative reviews associated with Bosch 36V too. Links too.

            Thanks.

            J.C.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Bosch 36V or Milwaukee 28V?

              Well I don't know if you're gonna find that much about Bosch because Bosch isn't THAT common! Even at the local tool place where they have every bloody brand of power tool, plus a tool service center, and they have a very good cordless section where they charge every battery of every tool so that you can squeeze the trigger and feel the drill do it's thing while you're in the store, doesn't stock that much bosch stuff. I have seen the odd Bosch drill (non-lithium) in the field, but seen much more Dewalt stuff followed closely by Milwaukee. I make a point to talk to guys about their Milwaukee drills - there are even some guys I see on sites with MIlwaukee Power PLus drills which is pretty interesting considering how old some of these drills are. And a lot of guys really love their MIlwaukee stuff.

              And don't forget the old adage that people will tell 10 friends about a problem but tell 1 about something good. People who have a problem will try and attract attention via the internet to get their problem fixed. If memory serves me correct, I think it has happened multiple times on this discussion board with ridgid tools if I recall correctly.

              I like Milwaukee because I honestly believe they are much more in touch with the market in North America. They know what guys want. Their V28 cordless line up has a pretty good selection of tools for guys like you and me. The metal cutting saw, grinder, right angle drill, band saw, sawzall, circ saw, hammer drill/driver, hammer drill (SDS), are all useful tools for Plumbers. They also produce the best wood drilling bits (Big Hawgs, and switchblade self feeds) to date, as well as some good metal drilling bits that rival lenox. Milwaukee also has pretty good network of service centers out there.

              Oh yeah - Milwaukee I'm pretty sure builds a lot more tools in the USA than Bosch, Milwaukee is based out of the USA more so than Bosch. I see no reason why a guy like you wouldn't invest in a MIlwaukee 4 piece set, and then start buying the other tools they have in their line. I know I"m always looking for excuses to justify getting some of the other V28 tools.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Bosch 36V or Milwaukee 28V?

                Don't get me wrong. I favor Milwaukees set on expansion, ability, performance etc. I also know what to expect from all battery tools. I also treat them as their individual manual states. But I will not tolerate problems outside of this realm.

                I have NO experience with Milwaukee battery tools. I have read some positive and negative reviews of their V28 system. The positive ones are great! The negative ones aren't and I do believe them. I recall reading more than 1 review where someone had a bad charger under 2 years and the company interpreted this as a wear item. This is not right and would make me lose my mind.

                You gotta' be careful with reviews though. People will lie and say they love the tools. People will also bash them when they did something wrong to the tool. Dropped it from 20', left it in the rain etc.

                My experience & review of the old Bosch 18V set has been positive. And there warranty/service has been good too.

                Had a trigger start to give me trouble on the drill and they paid to replace it. AND IT WAS OUT OF WARRANTY!

                I'm not sure where anything is made anymore. Probably China. I know that Milwaukee was acquired several years ago by TTI based in China. Maybe Bosch is similar.

                I like the Milwaukee better. Right angle drill too. My temper just won't tolerate alot of problems. Thanks for your review. Still looking.

                J.C.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Bosch 36V or Milwaukee 28V?

                  Do you know any guys in the field who own either of these and/or any stores or places to try them?

                  I honestly think Makita is a serious player right now- their 18 volt and 14.4 volt lithium ion tools are quite impressive. If you also ever take a look at their website or their catalogue you will be surprised at the various cordless tools they make. The only problem with Makita is they don't have a bigger voltage like most of the mainstream competition, nor do they have a battery indicator. I also find a lot of their stuff is made in China in their cordless tools anyways. Having said that though I have met the local Makita rep at the local tool place and he's a good guy and he always shows up to bring warranty batteries and he rarely questions battery replacements. Makita's 18 Volt Drill and 18 Volt IMpact driver combo seems to have garnered a lot of popularity out there with some of the carpenters.

                  The other cool thing about Makita is with the wide array of sets they offer with their cordless tools, it's almost like you can virtually build your own Makita Cordless set with the exact tools you want. But I don't believe they make a right angle drill yet. I know Milwaukee up until recently used to have an 18 volt Nicad right angle drill.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Bosch 36V or Milwaukee 28V?

                    Makita has no RA drill yet but who knows. Recently they released a right angle impact driver similar to the ridgid one.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Bosch 36V or Milwaukee 28V?

                      Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
                      Did 2 separate searches. One for Milwaukee V28 problems (or something like that). Then Bosch V36 problems. (also)

                      I doubt you'll find much of any good info on the Bosch, good or bad. It didn't come out that long ago and has very limited availability. Since the V28 was one of the first sets to come out there's a bunch of people using them by now and easy to find reviews for it.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Bosch 36V or Milwaukee 28V?

                        Any kind of info can be found on any tool brand. The best place to ask is the guys out in the field. Depends where you live. I know here in the SF bay area Bosch is very popular with the industrial field guys. Specially the concrete trade because their usage with rotary hammers. I would lean towards Bosch myself but don't get me wrong. I do own some milwaukee tools. It just seems that Milwaukee's quality has gone downhill in the past years. By the way. My Bosch 36v hammer drills are made in Switzerland and my rotary hammers are made in Germany.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Bosch 36V or Milwaukee 28V?

                          Originally posted by Scott K View Post
                          I also find a lot of their stuff is made in China in their cordless tools anyways. .
                          Carefull with the China bashing Scott. If you go here you will find that your beloved Milwaukee cordless power tools are not only manufactured in China but are now owned by TTI which is a Chinese company. http://www.ttigroup.com/general/home.php

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Bosch 36V or Milwaukee 28V?

                            As a retailer and repair center for both of these lines I can tell you honestly we have had hardly any complaints on either brand. Most of the time it seems people are making the decision on brand loyalty more than anything. We have sold more V28 systems overall but in general we just do more Milwaukee business. Over the past 3 months Bosch has been selling the 36V kits really cheap but prices are going back up now that the 18V lithiums have come out. We have been selling a ton on 36V with the lower price but that'll probably slowdown after we run out of stock on the cheaper 36V kits.

                            4 Tool Combo Kits:
                            Milwaukee V28 0928-29 $712 vs. Bosch 36V CPK42-36 $549 (plus this comes with an extra fat pack battery)

                            We ran out of the CPK41-36 and now the price is $781, you will probably see this with most of the other retailers smart enough to stock up on the 36V kits.
                            Jay
                            Ohio Power Tool - Ridgid
                            Coptool - Power Tool Blog

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Bosch 36V or Milwaukee 28V?

                              I've been lurking for awhile and decided to join and post to this thread.

                              I've had a lot of power tools in my lifetime including AEG tools made in West Germany. Anybody remember Elu (before they were bought out by B&D) made in Switzerland? I still have one of their routers.

                              Recently, I needed a new cordless drill to replace my DeWalts, so I started looking around and couldn't believe how many were made in China. Personally, I'm sick of buying everything made in China so when I saw that the Bosch was still made in Switzerland I bought it, and I'm glad I did. It's got a feel of quality that I really like.

                              I also looked at Porter-Cable because I had some of their tools in the past and thought they were well made. I soon found out that B&D bought them out as well and now they are made in China. In fact, the local Lowes just this week got in their new line up, I must say, what junk!

                              Sorry about the little rant.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Bosch 36V or Milwaukee 28V?

                                Well, I don't have a clue about powertools but I DO have a clue about reviewing and the web and I've been very curious about the V28 line.

                                First of all, look up Amazon reviews of products you already know are total crap. You will find reviews by people who love them. Power tools are neat. Very few of us can afford to try all of them or even more than just the ones we purchased for the first time. User reviewers are usually honest but they tend to lack perspective and rarely have the objectivity desired as they're looking to pat themselves on the back for a smart purchase and it's easy to be happy about a tool that works until it craps out on you. I'm not saying not to rely on them, just to take them as a whole and to take any one voice with a grain of salt.

                                Next, consider the number of reviews before taking too many of the nasty ones seriously. Anyone who has seen a Ford vs. Chevy argument online knows that brand loyalists are a very strange lot, ruled more by habit and the choices of their peers than reason or experience and some will actually trash another brand just to give "their" brand a competitive edge. I blame a lot of the unnecessary political division in the US on our propensity for blind brand loyalty.

                                Also, marketing people are not above internet review campaigns. You have to wonder about that one guy that slams a Milwaukee combo kit and the power drill from it in separate cut-and-paste reviews under different headlines (and the puff of smoke seemed a bit dramatic).

                                I was also concerned about the battery issues coming up occasionally but one common theme I noticed was that the problems were never carried forward beyond the local reps. Not one of these guys said they actually called Milwaukee directly and played the climb-the-ladder to the manager who is actually allowed to say "yes" game (tip: s/he's usually only one rung up that ladder - you can usually get to them in 5 minutes or less on the phone). A lot of them dealt with it locally, ran into resistance, got pissed off, wrote a review and promised future reviews depending on how things ultimately worked out but never followed up, which suggests satisfaction followed by laziness. If somebody gave me trouble over an issue that's clearly spelled out on the warranty, I'd be on the phone with Milwaukee immediately.

                                ================================================== =

                                I personally find the V28 offers the most appeal based on these factors:

                                They have more tools in the line that I expect to find a use for.

                                There are clearly more people using the V28 line which resolves a lot of quality control issues by default. There just isn't enough talk about the 36V for me to be certain that its issues, if any, have been thoroughly diagnosed and dealt with. More talk is good. I feel like I'd be taking a greater risk on the Bosch line whereas I'm seeing mostly isolated incidents that may be the result of abuse for negative Milwaukee user reviews.

                                The Drill, circ-saw, sawzall/reciprocating saw combo kits interest me the most as a starter kit for purchasing my first fixer-upper home. Stat-wise the drills seem roughly equivalent but Milwaukee wins on sheer force of applause from all over the internet for its versatile drill. Can't find much on the Bosch-equivalent. Milwaukee's circ-saw appears to have just a scotch more power to it with a rep for good battery life to boot. I'm willing to let the Popular Mechanics review give the Bosch recip a tie against Milwaukee's reputation for incredible Sawzalls because Milwaukee appears to already have the kit I want in terms of performance.

                                I haven't seen a lot of weight stats out there but I get the impression Bosch isn't known for lightweight tools whereas Milwaukee tends to get a lot of cred for having more power/quality at lighter weights without crossing into overkill and making an unstable tool.

                                I also get the impression Milwaukee has a longer standing reputation of having high quality across the board whereas Bosch can excel above and beyond Milwaukee in some areas, like its jigsaws and corded hammer drills, but not produce as much excitment in others. Please note: I will definitely be giving Bosch a hard look for any corded tool purchases I make in the future. I also get the impression Panasonic is worth looking at for a lighter-weight drill, Porter's classic pre-China router is a mainstay, and Makita's lower-end corded circular saws are something of a workhorse. I'm a brand pimp, not a brand whore. I think some of you guys have me sold on the 0234-6 5.5 amp Milwaukee magnum if I ever need a 12-inch corded drill though. Maybe I'll buy one just in case they try to discontinue it again (their dealers threw a hissy-fit apparently).

                                This final point is huge. It's a 5-freakin' year warranty. That's a nice commitment to the tool. Bosch's 3 years is nothing to scoff at either, but I'm kind of blown away by the 5er. Who does 5 years for anything nowadays? Hell, it's hard to find a 5 year commitment to a modern marriage.

                                That said, however, I seriously doubt you're going to feel like a loser for going with either set, unless you find yourself wanting something Bosch hasn't added to their 36V line yet.

                                ================================================== ====

                                Cons/potential cons of the 28V that didn't concern me enough to be an issue.

                                Underperformance in the cold in terms of holding a charge and power. It sounds as if Milwaukee's claims of the V28 dealing with the cold well might be exaggerated. I won't be working outdoors most of the time and if I do my tools won't be stored outside the night before (certainly not where I park my car in a Chicago alleyway - lots of great tools in the pawnshops around here).

                                Reports of death by small amounts of water came up a couple times. I have seran wrap for plumbing jobs and if water actually gets on the non-business-end of the tool, I'm going to consider that a stupid mistake on my part even if the precaution of waterproofing saves me from losing a valuable piece of equipment. I'm not sure you could pay me to use any power tool in the rain without a rubber suit and serious hazard pay but maybe I'm just a wuss like that.

                                Pricey batteries - Well this did concern me actually. I don't even know how much Bosch's cost but the combo kits are priced roughly the same and I saw enough 2 year reviews on the V28s claiming they were still using the originals with no apparent power loss and no more longevity loss than seemed normal.

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