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  • TS3650 bogs down

    I purchased a used TS3650 from the original owner around this time last year. He reported it'd been used lightly for ~8 months and it checked out OK during my inspection before purchasing it. It looked great mechanically and he ran a couple of cuts for me.

    However, during my time of ownership I've found it to be a surprisingly poor power performer, bogging down puzzlingly. It nears stalling on various kinds of cuts: rips on ply, rips and cross-cuts on ply and solid stock, and rip cuts on solid stock. On sheet rips, cut lengths have varied all the up to full-length. (I break sheets down to more manageable size before cutting on the TS.) Sheet material has been mostly 3/4" and of BB or regular birch ply, poplar ply and once of maple ply. Solid material has typically been thicker. Most of the stuff I've worked with over the last while has been of the nature of 5/4 beech, 3/4 to 5/4 maple & oak and 4/4 to 8/4 birch.

    Now, I'd suspected it was because of something I'd done, as the first thing I did when getting it home was give it a ground-up tuneup. So, over the last year, more than once I've been over the full gamut of calibrations and tuneups one can give a tablesaw, including:

    1. Blade to miter slot parallelism
    As this is obviously the most likely culprit, this is the naturally the first place I looked to. In testing blade-to-miter slot parallelism, I used Jim Tolpin's Low-Tech Heel Check method & tested from the left miter then verified from the right miter slot. My testing process followed clamping a piece of 3/8" dowel on my miter guage, gapped it 0.005" from a tooth on the front of the blade. Then, marking the tooth with chalk, I put that tooth to the rear, moved the dowel back to the tooth and tested the gap. I adjusted the trunnions according to the manufacturer's directions so that there was less than 0.001" difference between front and rear.

    2. Rip fence face flatness
    Using a straightedge, checked rip fence for flatness throughout its entire length.

    3. Rip fence to miter slot parallelism
    Verified that the rip fence was precisely aligned with the miter slots.

    4. Rip fence square to table top
    Checked for 90* orientation to the table top at several spots along its length.

    5. Checked tables for coplanarity
    I'd set this very carefully during my original tuning up using brass shims, but I used a straightedge to verify again that there was no sagging and that the extension tables were flat and coplanar to the saw table.

    6. Cleaned and lubricated the blade
    The blade is a <1 yr old, full-kerf Freud Premier Fusion (P410) that doesn't have more than a coupla-three hundred linear feet of cutting on it. I removed the blade and used Freud's Bit and Blade Cleaner and a toothbrush to clean it, then lubed it with DriCote.

    7. Cleaned blade mounting area
    With the blade removed in the previous step, I cleaned the arbor, arbor flange and outer washer with a brass bristle brush to ensure there wasn't anything caked in/on them that could be the cause of the problem.

    8. Arbor runout
    Blade & throat plate removed, and arbor area clean, I decided to test for arbor runout. Using my dial indicator & stand there's about about a needle's width of runout (I've called this 0.0001-0.0002" in the past, but been warned about trying to interpolate readings on a dial indicator). At the far end of the arbor itself there's just a smidge less than 0.001" runout.

    9. Blade runout
    With the blade mounting area clean, I tested for runout, again using a Tolpin approach: I employed his Low-Tech Runout Check method. The throat plate still removed, I carefully remounted and tightened the blade. Then, using the piece of 3/8" dowel clamped to my miter guage from the previous step, I brought the dowel up against the blade at the front & slowly rotated the blade in search of an area that ran closer to the dowel's end than the rest of the teeth. I selected a tooth in the center of that area, marked it with chalk and gapped the dowel 0.005" from the tooth. Then, I rotated the blade a full 360* several times, then put the tooth directly 180* opposite the marked tooth up to the dowel & tested the gap. Using this approach just less than 0.004" runout was indentified.

    10. Set throat plate
    I reseated the throat plate, adjusting it flush with the table's surface throughout its length.

    11. Set 45* and 90* stops
    Not that this likely could be to blame for these problems, I decided this'd be as good a time as any to ensure the 90* and 45* stops were precisely set, using a Wixey angle gauge.

    12. Checked for and removed any miter gauge play.

    13. Cleaned table with MS and applied a fresh coat of paste wax.

    14. Checked splitter to ensure it wasn't bent

    15. Checked splitter alignment to blade
    With the blade set at exactly 90*, I ensured splitter was also set to 90*, then ensured it was aligned to the blade.

    16. Checked the anti-kickback pawls to ensure they weren't perhaps grabbing too tightly when stock is being fed in.

    17. Checked pulleys to ensure they're aligned

    18. Ensure belt tension was properly set according to the instructions at both extremes of blade height.



    Other, Miscellaneous Details
    ****************************
    - Stock feeding: In trying to track this down I've been extra-vigilant about feeding straight and focusing on the stock/fence interface. I've also ensured proper outfeed support when cutting longer pieces, though the stalling happens even on shorter cuts.

    - Feed rate: In order to prevent stalling I've found that my feed rate has actually needed to be below what I'd normally expect to see burning at. Many times I've had to stop feeding & give the blade the chance to spin back up, then proceed very slowly. Haven't noticed any burning on the cuts.

    - Electrical: The saw's on a dedicated 110V 15A circuit using a 25' 12/3 extension cord. I've tried without the extension, but no discernable difference was noted. The lights in the shop don't dim when the saw is fired up, or while it's bogging down.

    - Blade height: For kickback-reduction, I have the blade projected well above the height of the work - probably at 75% max height. The problem still occurs, however, even with the blade set so the gullets just clear the work.

    - New blades: Thinking perhaps the problem wasn't the saw, but perhaps the blade was somehow to blame, I decided this'd be as good a time as any to make a couple of blade purchases I'd been planning. I purchased and installed a Freud Glue Line Rip blade (LM74M010), then a Heavy Duty Rip blade (LM72M010). Not much difference was noted despite changing blades.


    Given all of the above, it seemed reasonable to conclude that the motor was somehow to blame. So, starting simply, I decided to pop open the wiring cover on the motor. This is what I saw:



    Here's a copy of the wiring diagrams from p.9 of the manual:




    Now, in comparing these, to my entirely untrained eye it looks like this thing is wired for 220V: the brown wire is not connected to anything, the yellow and black wire that come out of the motor are connected to one another, and the white supply wire is connected to the white wire coming out of the motor.

    Would you agree with my assessment here?

    Now, supposing it actually wired in a 220V configuration but plugged into 110V, three questions come to mind:

    1. Is it possible for the saw even to turn on in this case?

    2. Assuming the answer to question 1 is 'Yes' would this explain what I'm been experiencing in terms of performance?

    3. Would operating the saw under these conditions possibly have caused any harm to the motor?

    Thanks,
    Roland

    (P.S. - Cross-posted from another forum.)

  • #2
    Re: TS3650 bogs down

    Roland - From a glance it looks as though your motor is wired for 220v or is at least wired incorrectly. Obviously it will run in this configuration, but not optimally....not sure if it'll do harm or not.

    Since you have a pic of where you're starting from, I'd rewire according to the 120v diagram....connect yellow to brown, and black to the white junction, and give it a cautious test run. It's probably prudent to eventually have it checked out professionally though. Good luck!
    Last edited by hewood; 12-15-2008, 02:12 PM.

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    • #3
      Re: TS3650 bogs down

      Yes, appears to be 220V wired, and yes, that would explain your performance issues. Hard to say if there's been motor damage or not - only one way to really be sure; correct the wiring for 110/120V, and give it a test run. I don't suspect that you'll run into a problem, as it's not like you were running excessive amounts of cuts through it, and if you haven't noticed any smoke or sparks yet, you should be okay. It might be prudent to have a reputable shop/service center have a look at it if you want, to run some voltage/resistance tests on the motor and electronics, but it could be an added and unneeded cost - just correct the wiring, use delicately the first few times, and then go from there. If there's damage, you'll notice it having failure issues some time within the next 50 to 100 cuts, I would suppose. JMO, anyway.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: TS3650 bogs down

        Hi Roland,
        I concur. Based on what I can see, that sucker is wired to run at 240V (the Yellow and Black motor leads are jumped, as in the schematic). But, I'm no electrician.
        Have you been able to contact the prior owner to check?

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: TS3650 bogs down

          Let's say it is properly wired up for 220-240 Volts and you run it on 120 Volts AC. It should start up but kind of slowly. The usual growl motor sound will be softer than normal. In addition the motor would greatly lack power. As for harming the motor as long as you didn't stall it or almost stall it and failed to quickly unload it, then you shouldn't worry. A good way to check this is with it unplugged give the motor a sniff test. If something is burned or was over heated the motor will stink.

          I would try carefully rewiring it for 120 Volts and then when ready, with saw unplugged but switch on, plug it in but be ready to unplug it fast if anything goes wrong.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: TS3650 bogs down

            OK guys, happy news.

            No 'mysterious blue smoke' smell from the motor as per Woussko's sniff test. While I'd done all my operations on the saw in the last year with it in this state, every time the motor'd bear down and come close to stalling, I'd back off and let the blade spin up. Looks like it may have been enough to sidestep damage...

            (Yuntrips had asked if I had tried to contact the previous owner, which was a good suggestion. I looked for our email correspondence but looks like it must have gotten 'tidied' during a cleanup at some point.)

            Anyhoos, I redid the wiring as per the 110V diagram, taking the opportunity to strip and redo each connection. Right from the moment I first fired it up again it's clear this is a different saw. The motor starting noise and blade sound is different - not 'grrrrrrrnnnnnwhirrrrrr' but rather an immediate and authoritative 'whiiiiiiiiiiiiiir' at a much higher pitch. Tried a cut on an offcut of some 8/4 birch it'd choked on earlier. Fired that baby through and the blade hardly slowed.

            I've done some cross-cutting and dado work in the last day or so as well an all still looks well. Seems like I'm good here.

            Thanks so much for all your assistance guys!

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: TS3650 bogs down

              I love happy endings.

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              • #8
                Re: TS3650 bogs down

                Sounds like a perfect Christmas-time fairytale!

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                • #9
                  Re: TS3650 bogs down

                  I still love my TS3650 after several years now..The only complaint I might or do have is it's a mess every time I use it..They added the dust collection option the year after I got my saw..ggrr..

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