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  • #31
    Re: Pretty Ballsy

    This was posted in another thread, it includes the newest Makita BHP454

    http://www.popularmechanics.com/home...s/4292657.html

    Ern

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    • #32
      Re: Pretty Ballsy

      Originally posted by erngum View Post
      This was posted in another thread, it includes the newest Makita BHP454

      http://www.popularmechanics.com/home...s/4292657.html

      Ern
      I have both drills (DCD950, and the BHP454) I will do a solid test, since PM only tested the DC927... Hands down worst XRP drill Dewalt ever produced. I will do some video footage, and take good pictures. Then I will post the information.

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Pretty Ballsy

        That would be a little more fair. The BHP451 is pretty old now, didn't it come out in 2005-6? That's another thing DeWalt did in this video - they chose one of the oldest drills to pick on. I can see why, since this is a marketing video and they want the difference to look as dramatic as possible. That way they can do the donut scene.

        By the way, where did you get your DCD950 so early? I didn't know you could actually buy it yet.

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Pretty Ballsy

          I think there was no Bosch drill in this video because they are a serious contender in both the power and durability departments. Bosch basically wrote the book on cordless drills that can survive a fall off a roof on to concrete. The problem with Bosch is that their ergonomics are very strange, and their cordless line is small. If you ever want to expand your collection beyond the basic combo kit tools, they don't offer much.

          Originally posted by Spinalzo View Post
          What is interesting is that there is no Bosch tool in the mix.

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Pretty Ballsy

            Originally posted by Sceeter W Wheels View Post
            By the way, where did you get your DCD950 so early? I didn't know you could actually buy it yet.
            That's a very good question and the answer was provided DRC Wartex in a prior post on this same thread:

            Originally posted by DRC-Wartex View Post

            Ru&Lins_05, the forum dewaltownersgroup was created very recently and is maintained by Kanxrus. He wants to create a forum equivalent to this, but unofficial. This is a one guy operation and he doesn't work for Dewalt, I know him. If you actually take time and research it, you will see he did some very good tests. I did similar tests but with hole saws and can confirm Makita BHP451 is the weakest, followed by ridgid.
            The whole Pretty Ballsy thread appears to be an introduction of the DeWalt videos to the Ridgid community by the owner of the dewaltownersgroup. What a great way to disseminate propaganda - don't wait for it to be found, but help it along by bringing it to your competitors' forum. Of course the videos will spread because members who own other tool lines also frequent this forum and visit other forums as well. No need to look any further as to how one comes into possession of the newest DeWalt offering.

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            • #36
              Re: Pretty Ballsy

              Originally posted by Spinalzo View Post

              The whole Pretty Ballsy thread appears to be an introduction of the DeWalt videos to the Ridgid community by the owner of the dewaltownersgroup. What a great way to disseminate propaganda - don't wait for it to be found, but help it along by bringing it to your competitors' forum. Of course the videos will spread because members who own other tool lines also frequent this forum and visit other forums as well. No need to look any further as to how one comes into possession of the newest DeWalt offering.
              I own all kinds of tools, I am a member of both festool forums, as well as this one. I participate in all just the same. I never advertised my site, nor did I plan on it. This is a public forum and I have every right to post anything I'd like related to power tools. Sounds like your saying it would be ok if any die hard Ridgid fan posted that video, but because I only own a handfull of Ridgid tools, and I operate a competitors forum... I'm somehow not allowed!?

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Pretty Ballsy

                Originally posted by Kanxrus View Post
                I own all kinds of tools, I am a member of both festool forums, as well as this one. I participate in all just the same. I never advertised my site, nor did I plan on it. This is a public forum and I have every right to post anything I'd like related to power tools. Sounds like your saying it would be ok if any die hard Ridgid fan posted that video, but because I only own a handfull of Ridgid tools, and I operate a competitors forum... I'm somehow not allowed!?
                No, not at all Kanxrus. You have just as much right here as anyone. Certainly not what I am implying as this is truly a public forum and you truly do have every right to post anything - period. In the short time that I have read your posts I have been impressed with your knowledge, style and humor and I do welcome you to the forum as others have welcomed me. It's always healthy to have competition in ideas, techniques and styles to enrich any gathering or group. Believe me, the sound that you are hearing has nothing to do with the handful of Ridgid tools that you own, nor the ones that you do not. Believe me, the sound that you hear has far less to do with the fact that you operate a competitors' forum and helped their video find its' way to this forum. Believe me, I'm just protective of the pleasant spot that we enjoy as the Ridgid Forum and would just like to avoid any upheavals down the road. The DeWalt video would certainly have found its' way to this forum - that's part of its' design. Now, when someone asks how you came by a new release tool, I told them so that they could understand that you might have a relationship to the tool maker and might share a bias toward that tool and tool maker and, coincidentally, also authored the "Pretty Ballsy" thread that introduced the videos. Nothing wrong with anything that's been done and if I've veered from fact, just let me know. Welcome.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Pretty Ballsy

                  Originally posted by Spinalzo View Post
                  Now, when someone asks how you came by a new release tool, I told them so that they could understand that you might have a relationship to the tool maker and might share a bias toward that tool and tool maker and, coincidentally, also authored the "Pretty Ballsy" thread that introduced the videos. Nothing wrong with anything that's been done and if I've veered from fact, just let me know. Welcome.
                  You can buy that drill online, for example at Grizzly Tools (I think that's where he got it) http://www.grizzly.com/products/DCD9...-driver/T22170

                  Take off your tinfoil hats, dear conspiracy theorists. Me and Kanxrus are just trying to educate public. Neither me not him are working or being paid for by Dewalt. Ridgid plumbing tools are awesome, cordless tools are crap. You are free to disagree all you want. End of story.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Pretty Ballsy

                    Originally posted by DRC-Wartex View Post
                    You can buy that drill online, for example at Grizzly Tools (I think that's where he got it) http://www.grizzly.com/products/DCD9...-driver/T22170

                    Take off your tinfoil hats, dear conspiracy theorists. Me and Kanxrus are just trying to educate public. Neither me not him are working or being paid for by Dewalt. Ridgid plumbing tools are awesome, cordless tools are crap. You are free to disagree all you want. End of story.

                    DRC,

                    Where you "think" he got it and where he did get it can be two different things. I appreciate you running interference, but "thinking" in this instance is not fact.

                    The public education is not lacking. The public realizes that each tool manufacturer will enjoy a "surge" when they introduce new ideas, or when they update their models in response to those new ideas. Example, Makita certainly enjoyed a surge when they introduced lighter weight tools with a more ergonomically designed shape to the handle. The choice of engineering design, podless battery, allowed them to do so and they did it. DeWalt, unable to fully follow suit, because of the pod design on the battery, has unveiled possible faults that might need to be corrected to that design. Touche (for my French speaking, Canadian neighbors) or en garde which ever is appropriate to the tool war situation. A prior poster to this thread championed his favorite, Hitachi (I own some of those too). Hitachi has the podless design on their 18v stuff, but has an advantage on their 10.9/12 volt offerings in that their mini-tools' battery has a base which allows them to stand upright, whereas, the other offerings all have a "stick" type battery (look at how it allows them to present a more ergonomic mini-tool).

                    Personally, I like Kanxrus' style in that he is factual and appears even spoken in his posts and doesn't need to refer to things as "crap" or belittle me if I need to wear a tinfoil hat. You see all that hyperbole only serves to try to make me emotional and move off point. And, I wish I was paid by and worked for a tool manufacturer - I hardly see the fact that you proclaim that you do not as a step towards ultimate truth, but if you feel you need that as a shield, have at it. Personally, I prefer the tinfoil hat. If it doesn't deflect criticism, it can keep out the rain. Again, welcome to the forum.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Pretty Ballsy

                      Originally posted by Sceeter W Wheels View Post
                      I wouldn't call these videos ballsy, unless they were blatantly lying. But they're not. In general, DeWalt's cordless have always been strong in the power department, and have good durability. So they have earned the right to be boastful if they want. What they're showing isn't really anything new either, but this is the first time I've seen them actually talk this much directly about their internal design features. Molded-in magnets date back to early XRP drills. If you made this video with the DC988 or DC925, they would also do really well.

                      Now, they have taken some liberties. I applaud them for making a transmission with a metal housing. *BUT* the previous XRP drills have used nylon transmission housings. Notice how they don't mention this. Anyway, I'm glad they have improved on this.

                      The 300RPM low gear problem of Makita, that's something we've talked about quite a bit. Velosapien has commented on this quite a few times. Keep in mind that that they have since released the BHP454, which now has a 400RPM low gear. That should improve the speed quite a bit.

                      They clearly took some liberties in this video but overall it was quite accurate. For example comparing the medium speeds on the BHP451 is a bit misleading in some situations. 451's middle speed is 600rpm while dewalts are usually around 1200 to 1400 middle speeds. The dewalt will win. You can bump the makita to full speed to make it a closer match in RPM's but then the torque will be too little. In this case if the drill bogs down a BHP454 would have to be bumped down to 1st at 400rpm. Dewalt in middle gear would still beat it by even more.

                      The BHP454 isn't really much different for the sake of these tests. Other than some cosmetic updates the only significant change is the useless 300 rpm and 600rpm speeds have been merged into a more reasonable 400rpm. This should also make the drill mechanically simpler and cheaper to build. In my experience the Dewalts still tend to have slightly higher torque at equal rpm so I have no doubt even with a BHP454 with a 400rpm 1st would still fall behind a 925 or 950 with a 450rpm 1st. It won't be as humiliating as the BHP451s 1st but it still gets beaten.

                      I'm not convinced there is anything different about their charging technology either. I'm pretty sure all brands have smart chargers with individual cell monitoring. Anyone with more detailed knowledge of the charger electronics is welcome to clear this up if necessary.

                      I certainly can't complain about the durability. In my experience I've dropped an XRP twice from about 5 or 6 feet on a ladder and nothing happened other than the battery shooting off. Maybe it was just luck but it's still not bad. To be fair my 451 took a similar spill once and also survived.

                      Other things I'm in total agreement with. The new Rohm chucks are a huge improvement and completely superior to the Jacobs. Makita also cuts corners and uses the 500 series which has no carbide reinforcement. They develop bit slip very quickly. Some models are not even bringing the metal steeve version anymore. When dewalt still used the Jacobs chucks they were all the metal sleeve carbide tipped 700 series. Same goes for the brushes. Makita's undersized brushes can be quite inadequate and are prone to everheating. I have a molten nylon brush holder to prove it I won't even go into the battery technology. The nano stuff is undeniably proven by countless external sources to be completely superior. They made a smart move securing the rights to them.

                      From what I've seen it really looks like they polished the design in the new 950. All metal casing with a metal shifter should be a huge improvement. I noticed they also switched to a linear shifter and gone is the traditional gear shifter ring which was their biggest design flaw. The old shifter ring just slid back and forth a nylon assembly inside with a half circle piece of wire. This caused the assembly to not want to slide evenly causing the notorious shift jams until the drill is well broken in. It was a fairly clumsy design.

                      In the end these tests are splitting hairs. I think Dewalt's drills have generally been the reference to compare others too but I am perfectly happy using my Makita drills which might have some minor shortcommings in comparison but are still more than top notch performers.
                      Last edited by Velosapien; 02-17-2009, 03:42 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Pretty Ballsy

                        Originally posted by DRC-Wartex View Post

                        The slider battery design doesn't allow you to use cheap materials, you are forgetting Dewalt has 28 and 36v which are sliders. It just allows you to make the handle thinner and thus more ergonomic. The video criticizes the materials and not the design, so let's not make it otherwise.

                        I think any discussion on the subtleties of pod vs slider design is overthinking things. Pod designs used to be more of a necessity. The old NiCD/MiMH batteries used a lot more cells so the stem allowed an extra cell to be fit in there rather than widening the batteries anymore. The drawback to the pods is they can fall out if not clipped in right. The slider design will not fall off even with a broken latch. To be quite honest once sliders get full of dirt and grime they can become a pain in the a55 to get off. Since lithium ion requires much fewer cells slider batteries are practical as the give a lot of design flexibility. No doubt dewalt also acknowledges this since the 28/36v are sliders.

                        The pod style Nano lithiums are an attempt to stay competive. Makita pretty much took everyone by surprise with the success of the LXT gear. Dewalt, Milwaukee ridgid and bosch all banked on the large high voltage stuff and it just didn't pan out. Milwaukee completely redisigned the V18 stuff to be more competitive, ridgid seems to be phasing out the 24v and going back to 18v. Dewalt has a huge line of 18v tools already established so they made backwards compatible batteries. Besides being an advantage to consumers it allowed them to have an instant and competitive 18v lithium lineup to compete.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Pretty Ballsy

                          Originally posted by Spinalzo View Post
                          No, not at all Kanxrus. You have just as much right here as anyone. Certainly not what I am implying as this is truly a public forum and you truly do have every right to post anything - period. In the short time that I have read your posts I have been impressed with your knowledge, style and humor and I do welcome you to the forum as others have welcomed me. It's always healthy to have competition in ideas, techniques and styles to enrich any gathering or group. Believe me, the sound that you are hearing has nothing to do with the handful of Ridgid tools that you own, nor the ones that you do not. Believe me, the sound that you hear has far less to do with the fact that you operate a competitors' forum and helped their video find its' way to this forum. Believe me, I'm just protective of the pleasant spot that we enjoy as the Ridgid Forum and would just like to avoid any upheavals down the road. The DeWalt video would certainly have found its' way to this forum - that's part of its' design. Now, when someone asks how you came by a new release tool, I told them so that they could understand that you might have a relationship to the tool maker and might share a bias toward that tool and tool maker and, coincidentally, also authored the "Pretty Ballsy" thread that introduced the videos. Nothing wrong with anything that's been done and if I've veered from fact, just let me know. Welcome.
                          I must be honest... I was not expecting that kind of a response. Thank's for the warm welcome! It seems that my other forum was short lived anyways, only a month and a half old, and I recieved an e-mail asking to remove the site because the URL contains DEWALT in it, which infringes there trademark!

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Pretty Ballsy

                            Originally posted by Kanxrus View Post
                            I must be honest... I was not expecting that kind of a response. Thank's for the warm welcome! It seems that my other forum was short lived anyways, only a month and a half old, and I recieved an e-mail asking to remove the site because the URL contains DEWALT in it, which infringes there trademark!
                            Kanxrus,

                            You'll find that the majority of the contributors, and I'd dare say occaisional readers, feel comfortable on this forum. Not everyone agrees and not everyone likes certain tools, programs, or having to wait for the LSA to kick in, or turnaround times when they drop off tools, but everyone likes someone who contributes and you do just that. Questions abound regarding how things work and how tools compare and I learn a lot too and sometimes even chime in with an answer, and you know, I've been mistaken before (never wrong - LOL). Look forward to reading your posts.

                            Spinalzo

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Pretty Ballsy

                              That's funny you mention the dirt in the slider design. I was using my DC415 to grind down some concrete the other day and had to vacuum off the battery rails because things got a bit sticky. Have never had this problem with the XRP batteries. By the way have you picked up a DC415 yet?

                              I've never understood why the high voltage didn't catch on more than it has, because the tools are so much more useful all around. They can make a pretty powerful 18V drill, but there is still a huge power margin with just about every tool. We can see that they can make improvements to technology to squeeze a little more power and and little more runtime out of a drill, but none of this will allow them to make an 18V DC300, that's just not going to happen.

                              Anyway, I'm starting to sound like a broken record on that subject. I just want to know where's my DCD970-36V?

                              Originally posted by Velosapien View Post
                              I think any discussion on the subtleties of pod vs slider design is overthinking things. Pod designs used to be more of a necessity. The old NiCD/MiMH batteries used a lot more cells so the stem allowed an extra cell to be fit in there rather than widening the batteries anymore. The drawback to the pods is they can fall out if not clipped in right. The slider design will not fall off even with a broken latch. To be quite honest once sliders get full of dirt and grime they can become a pain in the a55 to get off. Since lithium ion requires much fewer cells slider batteries are practical as the give a lot of design flexibility. No doubt dewalt also acknowledges this since the 28/36v are sliders.

                              The pod style Nano lithiums are an attempt to stay competive. Makita pretty much took everyone by surprise with the success of the LXT gear. Dewalt, Milwaukee ridgid and bosch all banked on the large high voltage stuff and it just didn't pan out. Milwaukee completely redisigned the V18 stuff to be more competitive, ridgid seems to be phasing out the 24v and going back to 18v. Dewalt has a huge line of 18v tools already established so they made backwards compatible batteries. Besides being an advantage to consumers it allowed them to have an instant and competitive 18v lithium lineup to compete.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Pretty Ballsy

                                You can claim all that you want out of power tools and you can boast large numbers. DeWalt has always claimed huge numbers in all of their tool categories, yet when put head to head they don't necessarily come out ahead.

                                Last time I checked the only torque values you could get from Dewalt were from their own tests. Any reputable tests would at least be independent and not from their own test facilities. Dewalt also uses UWO instead of torque values. Why be different than every other tool company. The only reason I can think of is to confuse me, the consumer.

                                The XRP series has had a very rough start. They have had numerous problems with the batteries and tools.

                                I have used XRP, Millwaukee M18, Makita LXT, and the new Bosch.

                                Makita may not have the newest technology but it works. They have many more tools dedicated to the lithium platform than anyone else at this time.
                                Right now I have no problem with my Makita Lithium tools and would recommend them over the others that I have tried based on Price vs Performance.

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