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  • New lithium ion battery problems

    Ive owned ridgid power tools for about 4 years now With my first drill it came with 2 18v 2.5 max batters. After 4 years one of the batters craped out no big deal great life spane and the other one is still going strong. Now after getting 2 new 18v 1.25 amp Lithium ion batterys Ive had problems with them chargeing in cold weather. Being on a job site and seeing everone eles haveing the same proble with there Lithium ion batters no matter what brand they own dewalt, milwalkee, mikita, ryobi, bosh and so on. What is going to be the fix for this cause most of us cant sit and wate in our car/vans/trucks for the batteres to warm up? Should we just go back to max batterys?

    And Please dont tell me its just faulty batters and chargers the job site am on hase over 150 workers on it and they are all haveing problems with the new Lithium ion batterys once again doesnt matter the breand...

  • #2
    Re: New lithium ion battery problems

    Same here that I have noticed, no matter the brand, the new lithium ions suck when it is cold out. I just bought the X3 kit in February and it looks like I will have to buy something else come next winter. This is absolutely ridiculous that they will not charge when they are cold. Ridgid needs to come up with a charger that heats the batteries or something.

    Jeff

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    • #3
      Re: New lithium ion battery problems

      I have the same problem. I have 4 Li batteries and 4 ni cads the Li's are great for inside work but when its outside in the below freezing temps they are impossible to charge. It sucks that a battery with so much hype surrounding it falls short in a major category such as temperature.


      Bill

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      • #4
        Re: New lithium ion battery problems

        NiCads seem to have a problem charging when the temp is high and Lithiums when the temp is low. Never had a problem with my corded tools at any temp.
        Teach your kids about taxes..........eat 30 percent of their ice cream.

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        • #5
          Re: New lithium ion battery problems

          Yes i do agree with u , but when your on a job site that is running on temp power it isnt worth everone trying to find power fight over it and bring a 50ft extension cord with you. Then also worriering about the saftey manager saying that running a extension cord is a triping hazord...
          True story about the saftey manager.

          So can we get some real anwsers from ridgid now...

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: New lithium ion battery problems

            What do you want Ridgid to say? The public damanded Li technology, and they gave it to you. As you have pointed out, every manufacturer has the same problem. You should research the shortfalls of the tools you use and ensure they are adequate for what you want them for. Don't go blaming the tool manufacturer because their batteries work exactly the same as other manufacturers. Sounds like you should be invested in both Li and NiCd batteries. Fortunatly both are interchangeable in the Ridgid tools.

            It seems that no battery technology is perfect, all have their problems. Need to ensure you have the right tools to do your job.

            What you should be doing is suggesting improvements Ridgid can make to make their tools/techgnology superior to other's. Piette, had a good idea of having a charger that heats up the battery to enable it to charge. Could put a temperature sensor in the charger, and a heating coil in the battery. Adds to cost, which puts them at a disadvantage; not everyone needs to charge their batteries outside in the cold. This starts to become specialist equipment.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: New lithium ion battery problems

              Well there was alot of up talk about how much better this is and nothing really said about how bad it was in the cold till people started using the new product and this is what the forum is for so they now know what they need to do, I have never had any problems with other batteries they have. This is the first problem ive had and id like to be kept updated on some of the things they might do or things people are doing to make it work. I dont care if it a fleece cover over the batterys to make it work id like to know what there doing to make it work better.

              This is kind of like buying a car but you cant use it during the winter time cause the battery is to cold. If this was lets say Vw and they had this problem there would be a group of engineers trying to find a way to make this work, so lets here some ideas.

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              • #8
                Re: New lithium ion battery problems

                The Fix To This Problem:

                Temperature sensors in the battery signal the charger. It in turn would adjust the Voltage higher so as to force charge the battery some. This would help to rise the temperature of the cells. Now regular charging can begin. Yes, it would take some time but you would be able to recharge your batteries in cold conditions. In addition for high temperatures the same sensors could be used to turn on cooling fans in the charger and the battery packs would have heat fins or sliding covers you would open before placing in the charger.

                Lead-acid flooded batteries as used for engine starting have similar issues. They work great in moderate temperatures but greatly loose output power and charging acceptance in reduced temps and when too hot quickly loose life especially if overcharged.

                The answer for all rechargeable cell batteries is temp sensing and smarter chargers.
                Last edited by Woussko; 03-24-2009, 12:13 AM.

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                • #9
                  Re: New lithium ion battery problems

                  Unless you explictly say to not use it during the winter I expect to be able to use it during the winter. Plus ridgid has said this is an professional grade tool, well were I come from this isnt professional I should be able to rely on my tools. Its like using a ratchet if it fails I take it back to sears and they give me a new one.. Iam not even looking for a new one just someone to tell me they're in the middle of making a fix or correcting it all together.

                  Look im not trying to fight with anyone, im trying to get anwsers.

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                  • #10
                    Re: New lithium ion battery problems

                    Pete, from the tone of your message, you seem to be blaming this problem on Ridgid, yet in an earlier message you said "everone eles haveing the same proble with there Lithium ion batters no matter what brand they own dewalt, milwalkee, mikita, ryobi, bosh and so on".

                    The lithium batteries have their advantages, but as you have discovered they also have their limitations. It is just not Ridgid, but everyone. Agreed; if someone can find a cost effective way of getting over the problem, they should have an advantage over their competitors. However, since most (if not all) companies are having this issue, the solution is obviously not as simple as we might think it is.

                    Your comparision to buying a car is not a good one, because again; every manufacturer is offering the similar technology with the similar issues.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: New lithium ion battery problems

                      We are a contractor in upstate NY and experiance overnight freezing temps for several months every winter. We have been using 24V and 18V LI batteries for our Ridgid cordless tools for the last three winters. The following is what we have learned about maximizing the utility of lithium ion battery tools during freezing conditions.
                      1-Lithium Ion batteries cannot be left out overnight in freezing conditions as this will render them useless. We bring all batteries inside to a heated room and top them off on chargers overnight. We also bring all NiCad batts inside during freezing condtions because their performance will be reduced if left out overnight in such weather. In the morning our crews load the batteries into a bag and transport them to the jobsite inside the heated cab of the truck. It has been our experiance that transporting LI batts in a uheated (box) area of the truck during freezing conditions will quickly render them inoperable.
                      2- If working out doors and daytime temps continue to be freezing we leave the batts in the truck and remove them for use with tools as necessary. Working the tools in freezing conditions does not affect battery performance. We have never had tools shut down while operating in freezing conditions. The battery current movement created by the tools working seems to allow the batteries to function properly even in freezing conditions.
                      3-We have never had a problem with batteries left in the truck cab during the day cooling to a point where they were inoperable. Possibly due to radiant heat in cab due to the sun(when we get it) or the fact that we don't have the extreme cold of our Canadian neighbors during the day.
                      4-It has been our experiance that batteries inadvertantly left overnight in freezing conditions can be reset and made usable by inserting in a charger for a few minutes.
                      In conclusion we have found that LI batts can be successfully utiliized in freezing conditions with minimal safeguards. I can tell you that our crews are very jobsite performance oriented and if LI batts were a problem on the job they would tell me to junk them. They are very happy with the additional benefits of LI batts and find no problem using them in freezing conditions.
                      Hope this is helpfull.....Ray

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: New lithium ion battery problems

                        Originally posted by roadrashray View Post
                        3-We have never had a problem with batteries left in the truck cab during the day cooling to a point where they were inoperable. Possibly due to radiant heat in cab due to the sun(when we get it) or the fact that we don't have the extreme cold of our Canadian neighbors during the day.
                        It is approximately 34-35 degrees outside here right now at 2:00 pm which is my normal work day. If I were to go outside and try to charge them, they absolutely would not. I charged them this morning after they warmed up, and now they have been outside unused for about 3 hours or so, and I can assure you, they would not charge right now. I have played this game several times over the last couple months. I tried charging them the other day after they were in my work van and it was mid 40's out and they wouldn't charge.

                        These batteries suck, plain and simple. I am pissed I paid $525 for a kit that I can't use here 6 months out of the year because it is too cold for my tools to do there job. Amazingly my body can take the low temps, but my tools can't.

                        Jeff

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                        • #13
                          Re: New lithium ion battery problems

                          Take them back then and move on. You must still be within 90 days on your purchase. Or find a warm place to charge them during the day. Or buy a bunch more so you don't have to charge any batteries on the worksite.

                          Whether you go cordless or corded, there's pros and cons to each one.

                          As far as my needs, cordless has more pros than cons, and if that meant getting extra batts to avoid having to charge cold batteries during the day, then I would.

                          I think this whole issue has run its course and is not limited to one particular manufacturer.
                          I'm on "The List" and I love it!!

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                          • #14
                            Re: New lithium ion battery problems

                            Operating tempatures;

                            NiCad: -40-60C
                            NiMH: -20-60C
                            Li-ion: -20-60C

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                            • #15
                              Re: New lithium ion battery problems

                              Originally posted by Kanxrus View Post
                              Operating tempatures;

                              NiCad: -40-60C
                              NiMH: -20-60C
                              Li-ion: -20-60C
                              Li-ion ranges depends on formula, MnO, Mn Spinel or LiFePO4.
                              Mn Oxide is -10...+40C, LiFePO4 is -30...+60C, Mn Spinel (ridgid) is -20...+60 C.

                              NiCd range is -20...+45. Anything below/above is damaging the cells.

                              With all Li-ion chemistries, at -10C there is about 0.6v voltage drop per cell and 0.8v at -20C.

                              Mn Oxide is very sensitive to higher end (at +42 C it starts degrading).
                              Last edited by DRC-Wartex; 03-24-2009, 08:41 PM.

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