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Lithium Battery ??? (Milwakee)

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  • Lithium Battery ??? (Milwakee)

    I bought the Milwakee 4 tool set with the bigger lithium batteries (not the 1.5 Ah) and charged them up and put one on the circular saw to rip a 2x4x8' for firring because I could not find the guide for my corded saw, the battery quit due to getting hot but was also the same as out of power too, even before I ripped one 2x4x8' soft fir, I then put in the other battery and it did a bit better... It did seem like both batteries got better after a second charge...
    My question is do lithium batteries need to go through a few use & charge cycles to get at their best...???
    Thanks and have a good one...Tater...

  • #2
    Re: Lithium Battery ??? (Milwakee)

    Tater.....
    I don't believe LI batts improve with charging cycles.
    We are a contractor and have three of the Ridgid 24V circ saws which have been used for two years. Our experiance has been that they are fine for cross cutting 2X however are very limited when attempting to rip 2X material. Cuts must be made very precisely and slowly or the saw will bind and stall which quickly overheats the battery causing the protective circuit to kick in and stop the saw. We pretty much limit rips to 1" material. There have been several tests of circ saws published on line and while I am not positive I believe most of the 18V circ saws have been reported as limited with regards to 2X ripping ability. We work with many other contractors in our area and none of them use 18V cordless saws for 2X ripping regardless of whether they are using DeWalt, Makita, Bosch, et all. Except for the occasional one or two boards for 2X ripping we reach for a corded circ saw.
    .....Ray

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    • #3
      Re: Lithium Battery ??? (Milwakee)

      Thanks Ray, I agree about the ripping 2xs with cordless, but I couldn't find the guide for my corded and only needed to rip 4-8' 2xs....
      The batteries were on their first charge and did seem to improve on the 2nd charge so I was just wondering if they might not reach their full potential untill a couple of charge cycles...
      Thanks and ahve a good one...Tater...

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Lithium Battery ??? (Milwakee)

        Originally posted by Tater View Post
        Thanks Ray, I agree about the ripping 2xs with cordless, but I couldn't find the guide for my corded and only needed to rip 4-8' 2xs....
        The batteries were on their first charge and did seem to improve on the 2nd charge so I was just wondering if they might not reach their full potential untill a couple of charge cycles...
        Thanks and ahve a good one...Tater...
        Tater,

        I've had the same experience as Ray on ripping 2x stock with my 24v Ridgid circ saw and doing rips it's a battery hog. However, crosscuts you get plenty of runtime. The 18v & 28v Milwaukee batteries have a "fuel gauge" on them as does the 24v Ridgid battery and you'll be surprised how they rejuvenate themselves after crosscuts, seems to last all day. I like the 24v battery over the 18v Ridgid for that reason - battery gauge tells you the charge before you get up on the ladder what you're going up there with. After making a few cuts I can check the gauge and it will read maybe 2 bars, but after a short interval rest between cuts they go back to 4 bars as the cell capacity evens out again. Try it and see if it's the same for the Milwaukee.

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        • #5
          Re: Lithium Battery ??? (Milwakee)

          Did your Milwaukee circ go something similiar to this?

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnF2Uh4oFfg

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Lithium Battery ??? (Milwakee)

            Originally posted by Kanxrus View Post
            Did your Milwaukee circ go something similiar to this?
            I don't like seeing that. However, I do think it is unfair to be using the compact Milwaukee battery, which is about 1/3 the size of the Dewalt. Everything I've read is that you don't want to use the compact battery for any sort of sustained work. I would like to see that same comparison using the XC battery for Milwaukee. I have a feeling that match-up might be a little more fair.

            However, the 2601 drill kit comes with the compact battery, so shame on Milwaukee...

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Lithium Battery ??? (Milwakee)

              Look, the battery he's using in the video is NOT the full size XRP. It's the 1.7AH compact NiCad that DeWalt sells with the DC720 kit. So he's comparing compact-to-compact batteries.

              Originally posted by jcouvret View Post
              I don't like seeing that. However, I do think it is unfair to be using the compact Milwaukee battery, which is about 1/3 the size of the Dewalt. Everything I've read is that you don't want to use the compact battery for any sort of sustained work. I would like to see that same comparison using the XC battery for Milwaukee. I have a feeling that match-up might be a little more fair.

              However, the 2601 drill kit comes with the compact battery, so shame on Milwaukee...

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Lithium Battery ??? (Milwakee)

                Originally posted by jcouvret View Post
                I don't like seeing that. However, I do think it is unfair to be using the compact Milwaukee battery, which is about 1/3 the size of the Dewalt. Everything I've read is that you don't want to use the compact battery for any sort of sustained work. I would like to see that same comparison using the XC battery for Milwaukee. I have a feeling that match-up might be a little more fair.

                However, the 2601 drill kit comes with the compact battery, so shame on Milwaukee...
                Yes it was compact batteries against compact batteries. The same test was done with other compact drills. The new Ridgid compact and the new Hitachi compact did not share the same fate as the Milwaukee!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Lithium Battery ??? (Milwakee)

                  The comparison to Dewalt is really stupid because you are comparing NiCd to Li-ion. NiCd can provide 100 A continuous current. Compact li-ion can do 20-30 A max. When you drive it to the max it starts losing charge rapidly (thermally and chemically) and you get crappy results. NiCd will also be 70% dead in a week. Wait till dewalt comes out with 1.1Ah batteries and compare them then. And doesn't matter if they are both called "compact", you are comparing apples to oranges.

                  Also, most of your tests have a single sample so scientifically they are completely uselss. To have any approximation to reality you have to charge the batteries for at least 6 hours to completely balance the cells, use at least 5 DIFFERENT batteries and when you do cross-tests, alternate between the tools for each hole and drill in a even-odd matrix pattern to compensate for lumber density variation. You also need to take breaks as different li-ion formulas and motors react differently to continuous duty.

                  Nobody in real world drills 25 holes with a 2" forstner bit within 3 minutes.

                  I know you are doing this because you like power tools (so do I), but I can't even begin to describe how flawed you tests are.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Lithium Battery ??? (Milwakee)

                    It is a test! It may not be a "complete" test, but it is still a test just the same. Nowhere does it say it is a complete test, it is one scenario. What you don't see in that video is the Milwaukee being left on the charger for 24hrs. The very first test out of the box had the same result, so I decided to let them charge over night. The very first test on camera with that battery had been on the charger for 24hrs. My Dewalt DC720 is two yrs old, it's done these test back to back flawlessly. People always bash on NiCd and how it's so horrible that Dewalt does not have a compact Li-Ion, well I say for a few extra ounces more in weight, you’re still getting a super COMPACT DRILL!

                    I don't know where you get off bashing on me, when you do the same tests!

                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-nQpbIXjsE&feature=channel


                    Test results: (from DRC Forum)

                    Dewalt Dc410 - 10, 9.5, 10, 11 cuts
                    Dewalt DC411 - 14.5 cuts (motor is different from DC410)
                    Makita BGA452 - 14, 15, 17 cuts
                    Dewalt DC415 - 31, 32, 31 cuts



                    I've done hundred's of these tests, just because I don't post results for 4 tests done on the same tool, so that they know that in test 1 the DC410 did 10 cuts, in test two it did 9.5, test three it did 10 , test four it did 11. It averaged 10.12 cuts. Wow thanks! Nobody wan't to watch youtube clips of one test being pounded out 4 times.

                    I don't know about you, but in the real world I don't wait 5 hrs for my cells to equalize in the middle of a job. Give me a tool that can work!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Lithium Battery ??? (Milwakee)

                      [quote=DRC-Wartex;227273] You also need to take breaks as different li-ion formulas and motors react differently to continuous duty.

                      Nobody in real world drills 25 holes with a 2" forstner bit within 3 minutes.

                      [quote]

                      DRC,

                      I agree with you on this topic. I use my NiCads in the tougher day-to-day situations where I need to draw down loads of power over prolonged periods as the battery chemistry will allow me to do so vs. how I use the lithium batteries for short bursts and non-continuous duty where there are normal and measured breaks in between useage. In my post above, that is what I was alluding to when I mentioned that the Ridgid 24v lithium battery would seem to even out and regenerate itself, but would exhaust itself if I used the lithium to rip 2x's. There are advantages and disadvantages to each of the battery chemistries that allows tools to accomplish different tasks. I appreciate your explanation and concurrence in providing this useful information. I find owning both types of batteries - NiCad and Lithium - a plus for that reason.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Lithium Battery ??? (Milwakee)

                        Your right this test may not be real world conditions. It's a much tougher test than real world conditions for a compact. That's how I would like my tools tested. Maybe if Milwaukee did this test, they would not release it to the public!?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Lithium Battery ??? (Milwakee)

                          Originally posted by Kanxrus View Post
                          Your right this test may not be real world conditions. It's a much tougher test than real world conditions for a compact. That's how I would like my tools tested. Maybe if Milwaukee did this test, they would not release it to the public!?

                          If milwaukee did those tests, they wouldn't release half of their cordless stuff. Their target userbase is soccer moms.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Lithium Battery ??? (Milwakee)

                            Not to change the subject, but I'm amazed at how much those 18V grinders bog down cutting the rebar. The 36V grinder cuts far faster than that.

                            BTW, nice socks DRC

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Lithium Battery ??? (Milwakee)

                              Originally posted by Kanxrus View Post
                              Did your Milwaukee circ go something similiar to this?
                              Not really, but mine uses the larger 3.0 L-I batteries. I didn't mention it before but I did use the drill and I was more pleased with how it did on what I was doing, it didn't sound like the one you were using either...
                              I also talked to a Milwakee Rep., at least he was in a red Milwakee truck @ HD and he said the batteries would improve a bit with a couple or so cycles...
                              But we'll see, if not I may be using the 90 day thing at HD...
                              Thanks and have a good one...Tater...

                              Comment

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