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  • Old THICK 18V Lithium-Ion battery vs new THIN version

    Hello good people

    Last year I purchased the Ridgid "Auto-Shift" drill (R86014) with tool bag, two 18V Li-Ion batteries and charger. I had hardly used it at all until last month when required to work on a construction job. I found the Auto-Shift drill (with the THICK Li-Ion battery clamped onto its base) very heavy to wield around. Then a mate on the same job lent me his 14.4V Makita compact driver and I realized I could never go back to the full-size full weight drill (actually I was mostly screwing not drilling!) with any confidence. So, last week I bought the Ridgid Fuego Combo which includes both the 18V Ridgid compact driver (R86030) and the smaller more manageable Ridgid drill (R86007) -- basically displacing the need for the Auto-Shift I already own.

    It was only when comparing the two drills and the batteries that I realized there was a THICK battery and a newer THIN battery.....but curiously the spare battery in the tool bag that I had bought a year ago was the THIN one -- in other words, the drill I purchased last year had two different batteries in the box (one THICK and one THIN) -- now I know that the THICK ones will fit the new compact drill and driver (like Nikon camera lenses perhaps) but -- are the THIN batteries "better" than the THICK ones in terms of performance?

    Here are my other questions:

    Does the Auto-Shift model always come with one THICK Li-Ion battery and one THIN Li-Ion battery?

    The Fuego Combo contains two THIN Li-Ion batteries --
    Is the THIN Li-Ion battery a "new and improved" battery? Or is the fact that it is thinner simply a design issue to make the tools easier to hold and haul around all day?

    Do the THIN Li-Ion batteries last as long or longer as the THICK ones? Do they recharge quicker than the THICK ones to deliver the same number of hours of battery life...?

    I do so hope I have chosen Ridgid tools wisely (having now invested many hundreds of dollars in Ridgid product).....there seems to be a lot of dissatisfaction with their performance expressed on these pages....

    Thanks for your time and attention guys

    duncando

  • #2
    Re: Old THICK 18V Lithium-Ion battery vs new THIN version

    Hi, the thin aka "slim" like manufacturers calls them are sold with "value" tools or tools that do not require much current to operate such as lights, impact drivers or compact drills. Slim batteries have half the capacity and less than half the power output of a full sized battery. They also don't last as long as full [aka fat] sized battery in terms of longevity because you are putting higher strain on the cells inside. Full size battery is nothing but 2 slim batteries connected in parallel. Because of chemical properties of li-ion, a typical slim battery will give you 0.3x-0.5x the runtime of the fat battery, the higher the load the lower that ratio would be, as li-ion discharges faster [more wasted energy] under heavy loads.

    If you are driving screws into soft wood or metal studs or drilling metals with 3/8" bit or less, you are fine with slim batteries. If you are cutting cast iron pipes with cordless Fuego or drilling 1" holes I'd recommend using fat batteries.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Old THICK 18V Lithium-Ion battery vs new THIN version

      Simply put:

      The "thin" battery is rated at 1.5AH
      The "thick" battery is rated at 3.0AH

      For the others:

      The original 18VDC Ni-cad was rated at 1.9AH
      There is a 2.2AH rated battery that is sold with plumbing devices using 18VDC
      The newer Ni-cad MAX is rated at 2.5AH

      The higher the AH [amp-hour] rating, the longer the run time..Of course this also depends upon the condition of the battery, tool, and what task is being accomplished.

      Cactus Man

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Old THICK 18V Lithium-Ion battery vs new THIN version

        Originally posted by cactusman View Post
        Simply put:

        The "thin" battery is rated at 1.5AH
        The "thick" battery is rated at 3.0AH
        Those should be 1.4 and 2.8 respectively.
        http://www.molicel.com/hq/product/DM_IMR18650E.pdf

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Old THICK 18V Lithium-Ion battery vs new THIN version

          Yes, the thinner of the two batteries is a 1.5 Ah battery, and the thicker one is a 3.0 Ah one (rounded numbers, from Ridgid, not the peak-voltages and other testing numbers). Both of these batteries are 18 volt, and are safe to use on all past and present 18 volt Ridgid power tools.

          The thinner battery (which is actually referred to as the "compact battery") is actually the first of these batteries to come out. They were out almost a year or so before the 3.0 Ah version, which, if I remember correctly, first sold as a stand-alone battery, and then in some combo kits.

          There really is no good or bad to either battery. Where you have less weight, you also have less run time, due to the smaller battery capacity. So, there are pros and cons to both.

          The smaller battery takes in the neighbourhood of 30 minutes to charge, and the larger battery takes around 45-50 minutes.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Old THICK 18V Lithium-Ion battery vs new THIN version

            Originally posted by canucksartech View Post
            Both of these batteries are 18 volt, and are safe to use on all past and present 18 volt Ridgid power tools.


            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnF2Uh4oFfg

            This is a Milwaukee test but Ridgid battery uses exact same cells, so will have exact same results.

            This is what happens when you use "compact" batteries. There is a 2nd test at the end. Note that 7/8" spade bit is not that much of a load on the drill. Comparison of 1.4 Ah Li-ion milwaukee and 1.6 Ah NiCd dewalt. The difference is in current the battery can provide: 13 Amperes vs 60 Amperes.

            So no, canucksartech, they are NOT safe to use on ALL tools, because some applications draw a lot of current and will drain the battery instantly. There is a huge difference in performance and lifespan between them (I'm not talking about runtime).

            duncando, Pick batteries depending on accessory, material and tool. Also take everything from local "experts" here with a bag of salt. Many of them have no necessary technical education and/or background but give plenty of [uninformed] advice.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Old THICK 18V Lithium-Ion battery vs new THIN version

              Originally posted by DRC-Wartex View Post
              duncando, Pick batteries depending on accessory, material and tool. Also take everything from local "experts" here with a bag of salt. Many of them have no necessary technical education and/or background but give plenty of [uninformed] advice.
              and he should listen to why ???????
              Charlie

              My seek the peek fundraiser page
              http://observatory.mountwashington.o...nal&fr_id=1040


              http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/conditions.php

              new work pictures 12/09
              http://public.fotki.com/hvachawk/

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              • #8
                Re: Old THICK 18V Lithium-Ion battery vs new THIN version

                Originally posted by DRC-Wartex View Post


                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnF2Uh4oFfg

                This is a Milwaukee test but Ridgid battery uses exact same cells, so will have exact same results.

                This is what happens when you use "compact" batteries. There is a 2nd test at the end. Note that 7/8" spade bit is not that much of a load on the drill. Comparison of 1.4 Ah Li-ion milwaukee and 1.6 Ah NiCd dewalt. The difference is in current the battery can provide: 13 Amperes vs 60 Amperes.

                So no, canucksartech, they are NOT safe to use on ALL tools, because some applications draw a lot of current and will drain the battery instantly. There is a huge difference in performance and lifespan between them (I'm not talking about runtime).
                The OP had asked about the battery difference in using the Ridgid compact 1.5Ah 18 volt lithium-ion batteries versus the larger 3.0Ah 18 volt lithium-ion batteries in a tool. Specifically, he was questioning compatibility of usage with the AutoShift drill/driver, the Ridgid compact driver (R86030) and the smaller more manageable Ridgid drill (R86007).

                So, once again you post some crazy crap, comparing apples and oranges.

                No, just because a Milwaukee battery and a "Ridgid battery uses exact same cells" does NOT in fact mean that they "will have exact same results." There are inherent differences in the drills, from design, motors, RPM speeds, torque, etc., etc. No, I don't have all the specifics in hand, but I'm sure that you're resisting the urge to edumacate us all of these specifics. Either way, there is still no problem with these batteries to be used.

                With these lithium-ion batteries, and that video specifically, I'm sure that once you allowed a rest time of a few seconds on that lithium-ion battery after it shut down, if you allowed it a little bit it would reset and allow you to continue with drilling. These lithium-ion batteries have a monitoring circuit in them that cause them to shut down when they are on occasion used in too high of a current-draw operation. This then makes them safe. It all depends on what the usage is for, as to what would be best to use - compact battery, or 3.0Ah battery. But, still "safe" either way.

                So, the simple answer is that, YES, both sizes of batteries are safe to use on any compatible Ridgid 18 volt tools. Ridgid has come out and said so in the past, and also it does say so on their packaging and in the manuals of these tools. Granted, obviously the smaller battery will not in fact last longer per charge (hence, "compact"), especially on higher current-draw usages (ie - recip saw, circ saw, drill with larger spade bits, etc., etc.) And yes, using these compact batteries in a higher current-draw usage will lead to more wear-and-tear on the battery's cells, and lead to less of a longevity of them over their lifetime. But, that's what you have a warranty/LLSA for.

                But, you are once again turning things around. Just because they won't last longer, doesn't mean they aren't safe.

                Originally posted by DRC-Wartex View Post
                duncando, Pick batteries depending on accessory, material and tool. Also take everything from local "experts" here with a bag of salt. Many of them have no necessary technical education and/or background but give plenty of [uninformed] advice.
                Pot, meet kettle. It's name is "expert dumbass".

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Old THICK 18V Lithium-Ion battery vs new THIN version

                  I take tools apart, I sell them, I do performance testing and follow many industry news sources and work with batteries nearly every day. I own and use more tools that you probably will in your lifetime. You on the other hand, are very good at running your mouth my friend.

                  FYI battery "safety" is provided with PTC in the cells and not "special monitoring circuit". The BMS might or might not have a MOSFET inside that limits the current, but even if it does it doesn't kick in until you hit some critical values, which significantly shortens battery life.

                  No, just because a Milwaukee battery and a "Ridgid battery uses exact same cells" does NOT in fact mean that they "will have exact same results."
                  Becase you know, somehow watt output at the chuck is not proportional to current draw at near-equal RPM, and 1st gear varies greatly between manufacturers, right? There are limits to motor design, and to achieve ceratin torque you will have certain current draw at equal or near equal RPM. If you "don't have the specifics" then maybe STFU, because I *do* have the specifics.

                  Calling me a "dumbass" was real mature too, I bet I hit where it hurts with my last post.

                  Your turn.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Old THICK 18V Lithium-Ion battery vs new THIN version

                    Again, all you have is your technobabble and your non-realworld numbers. I do use these in actual construction and renovation, and they hold up more than fine. Again, SAFE, as Ridgid themselves have stated. I will put up their team of engineers' words (and legal departments' verification, I'm sure) against your's anyday.

                    It's just no use in trying to discuss anything with you anymore. You're like one of those kids that just argues for the sake of arguing with someone. And then, when you get a smack in the face, and get put in your rightful place, you go cry to mommy/teacher/lawyer to try to get your way. Karma does kick in every now and again - keep acting like a moron, and life has a tendency to slap you around every now and again. Anything beneficial that you bring to the Forum by your sometimes informative posts is completely overridden by your harshness, insulting attitude towards other's opinions, lack of understanding that engineering/testing just can't tell you everything about how something will work in the real world, and just general disdain for others if they're not in line with your "mathematical" and "bench-test" thinking.

                    If only we could take a Forum vote, to decide on saying goodbye to you. "Somewhere, over the rainbow..."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Old THICK 18V Lithium-Ion battery vs new THIN version

                      I do use these in actual construction and renovation
                      This is how all of your arguments begin, that's all you got, your anecdotal evidence. Trying to reason with you is just impossible, you parrot your mad "construkshun experience" in every post - look it up. I hope admins see this and take appropriate action. I work in construction as well, you know and use way more tools than you can imagine. You choose to ignore reality and measure performance by your abstract personal perceptions. I could care less about this forum either, and stop pretending like you are affiliated with some non-existent "Wartex-hating group", you are a nobody on the Internet, what you say is absolutely meaningless to me.

                      I'm done responding to your asinine drivel.

                      Bye bye, expert.
                      Last edited by DRC-Wartex; 09-16-2009, 02:27 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Old THICK 18V Lithium-Ion battery vs new THIN version

                        Guys it is okay to disagree without being nasty.

                        Mark
                        "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                        I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Old THICK 18V Lithium-Ion battery vs new THIN version

                          Some people take this place WAY too seriously.......opinions are just that, opinions, and you know what they say about those.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Old THICK 18V Lithium-Ion battery vs new THIN version

                            Agreed, on both points from both. Thanks.

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