Announcement Announcement Module
Collapse
No announcement yet.
Free battery for life - Li-ion battery compatability??? Page Title Module
Move Remove Collapse
X
Conversation Detail Module
Collapse
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Free battery for life - Li-ion battery compatability???

    Hi Folks

    I got my cordless drill with a free battery for life offer... One of my original batteries died after many years of hard use...

    When I got home I noticed that the battery fit my drill ok... The charger kept going "on & off" after a while while charging...

    I am using a G0343 charger and I noticed the new battery (CS0938) was smaller... It is a Li-ion battery!!!

    Since the new battery fits in the G0343 charger is it compatable???

    Most Li-ion packs have a balancer built-in to ensure cell are not damaged... Does the control circuit in the Li-ion battery cycle the charger to make it compatable???

    Thanks

  • #2
    Re: Free battery for life - Li-ion battery compatability???

    Originally posted by hs10 View Post
    Hi Folks

    I got my cordless drill with a free battery for life offer... One of my original batteries died after many years of hard use...

    When I got home I noticed that the battery fit my drill ok... The charger kept going "on & off" after a while while charging...

    I am using a G0343 charger and I noticed the new battery (CS0938) was smaller... It is a Li-ion battery!!!

    Since the new battery fits in the G0343 charger is it compatable???

    Most Li-ion packs have a balancer built-in to ensure cell are not damaged... Does the control circuit in the Li-ion battery cycle the charger to make it compatable???

    Thanks
    What a day! First, "Mark from Texas", then "Budman", now this guy. Grrrrrrrr!
    What are they called? Plants...shills....professional forum troublemakers?
    Last edited by roadrashray; 11-17-2009, 04:49 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Free battery for life - Li-ion battery compatability???

      If your old charger was supplied with the, then popular, Ni-Cad batteries it will not work with the new Li-Ion batteries. As the Li-Ion battery requires a significantly different circuit. (Some Li-Ion batteries (in other applications, I have heard no reports of any Ridgid batteries doing this) have been known to burst into flame if charged wrong!)

      There has been no "Free Battery for Life" program that I am aware of... but that's probably being a "technical" on my part. Perhaps you mean the "Limited Lifetime Service Agreement"... in which failed components will be replaced or repaired by a Ridigid Authorized Service Center (NOT Home Depot).

      That LLSA does NOT apply to batteries purchased separately! And, I don't understant how you ended up getting a Li-Ion battery replacement for a Ni-Cad battery.

      Finally, the Li-Ion battery fits the charger, ONLY BECAUSE, it is made to be compatible with the same-voltage tool... which obviously as a similar mounting connection. The Ni-Cad charger (especially if it is "several years" old) should NOT be used in an attempt to charge a Li-Ion!

      Note: Further discussion below and earlier discussion that I obviously missed, indicate that the Ridgid Li-Ions have built in circuit protection that allows them to be used with older Ridgid NiCad chargers... there is some discussion about their efficiency though... so read on!)

      CWS
      Last edited by CWSmith; 11-18-2009, 03:45 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Free battery for life - Li-ion battery compatability???

        But weren't we told the older nicad charger would work fine because the litium ion batteries had built in protection? Didn't we dance this dance for weeks?

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Free battery for life - Li-ion battery compatability???

          Franki,

          Perhaps I missed that particular "dance" Was there any "official" words on that question, or just opinion?

          Certainly would be a good thing to know.

          Thanks,

          CWS

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Free battery for life - Li-ion battery compatability???

            Originally posted by CWSmith View Post
            Franki,

            Perhaps I missed that particular "dance" Was there any "official" words on that question, or just opinion?

            Certainly would be a good thing to know.

            Thanks,

            CWS
            CW, I don't know how to search for the Thread but it went on for quite a while. Members posted good points to support their ideas regarding the safety of charging lithium ion batteries on the older nicad chargers. Plenty of questions were raised, and if I remember correctly there was something about a marking on specific chargers. At some point along the line a Ridgid rep finally said the lithium batteries themselves had the protective circuitry which made them safe to be charged on the older nicad "only " chargers. Don't , I repeat, DON'T take my word for it as my memory could be way off, but that is what I remember. I also clearly remember the many warnings offered that said it was dangerous and posed a fire and explosive hazard to use the older charger. I remember mention of batteries making crackling noises and other negative remarks which were contrary to the offical word. I hope someone can either find that thread or that we can get the offical word once again. I feel that it warrants repeating from time to time so that new members or people stopping by to pick up useful information can become properly informed. Sorry I could not be of more help but this was a very controversial issue.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Free battery for life - Li-ion battery compatability???

              Hope this link I am including answers the question. Find the reply by Josh.
              http://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/sho...charger&page=4

              This link includes a response by Probrand.
              http://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/sho...charger&page=6
              Last edited by Frankiarmz; 11-18-2009, 12:07 AM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Free battery for life - Li-ion battery compatability???

                Thanks Franki,

                That was excellent I obviously missed it entirely (or else my memory is shot).

                I copied and repeated it here with the idea that it might increase the chances of finding it.

                Posted by Josh on 01/31/08:

                Ok.. heres your official response...

                "All Ridgid 18-Volt Lithium Ion batteries have been designed with redundant safety features that protect the battery during charging. As such, all Ridgid 18-Volt Lithium Ion Batteries may be safely charged on any existing Ridgid battery charger. Should you have any questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to contact Ridgid Customer Service at 1-800-4-RIDGID."

                So no worries. Sorry I wasn't willing to answer this one on my own wanted a more official response.



                Posted by Probrand on 02/01/08:

                Hello everyone. To sum up:

                The statement from the engineers is to alleviate the concern of hazards. The statement by customer service is correct in that it speaks to "compatibility." While the lithium ion batteries will charge in the older chargers, the led lights will not function properly. Rather than go solid state to show a full charge, the led will just turn off. For that reason, customer service advises using a lithium ion charger.

                * * * * * * * *

                Always good to get my "head" corrected, so thanks again Franki,

                CWS



                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Free battery for life - Li-ion battery compatability???

                  Originally posted by CWSmith View Post
                  Thanks Franki,

                  That was excellent I obviously missed it entirely (or else my memory is shot).

                  I copied and repeated it here with the idea that it might increase the chances of finding it.

                  Posted by Josh on 01/31/08:

                  Ok.. heres your official response...

                  "All Ridgid 18-Volt Lithium Ion batteries have been designed with redundant safety features that protect the battery during charging. As such, all Ridgid 18-Volt Lithium Ion Batteries may be safely charged on any existing Ridgid battery charger. Should you have any questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to contact Ridgid Customer Service at 1-800-4-RIDGID."

                  So no worries. Sorry I wasn't willing to answer this one on my own wanted a more official response.



                  Posted by Probrand on 02/01/08:

                  Hello everyone. To sum up:

                  The statement from the engineers is to alleviate the concern of hazards. The statement by customer service is correct in that it speaks to "compatibility." While the lithium ion batteries will charge in the older chargers, the led lights will not function properly. Rather than go solid state to show a full charge, the led will just turn off. For that reason, customer service advises using a lithium ion charger.

                  * * * * * * * *

                  Always good to get my "head" corrected, so thanks again Franki,

                  CWS



                  CW.....I always hate coming back to this issue because of a number of things. Unfortunately that was not the end of the charger issue. Frank may remember that others and I that tried charging LI batts on a NiCad charger had less than satisfactory experiences. Based on my personal experience we resolved to only charge our LI batts on designated LI chargers. We felt it was the safe and prudent thing to do, however I dropped any further requests for information from Ridgid. They have posted their response to the issue and several others and I have posted our experience and final decision.
                  Below are a couple of threads.....
                  http://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/sho...rger+questions
                  http://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/sho...+Ion+batteries
                  In defense of Ridgid's recommendation, I can only assume that if Li batts were blowing up when charging on NiCad chargers we would have heard about it on this forum by now. As stated many times, I felt uncomfortable based on my observation of the machinations the charger was going through during the charging process and decided to only use LI chargers with LI batts.....Ray
                  Last edited by roadrashray; 11-18-2009, 12:42 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Free battery for life - Li-ion battery compatability???

                    Originally posted by roadrashray View Post
                    CW.....I always hate coming back to this issue because of a number of things. Unfortunately that was not the end of the charger issue. Frank may remember that others and I that tried charging LI batts on a NiCad charger had less than satisfactory experiences. Based on my personal experience we resolved to only charge our LI batts on designated LI chargers. We felt it was the safe and prudent thing to do, however I dropped any further requests for information from Ridgid. They have posted their response to the issue and several others and I have posted our experience and final decision.
                    Below are a couple of threads.....
                    http://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/sho...rger+questions
                    http://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/sho...+Ion+batteries
                    In defense of Ridgid's recommendation, I can only assume that if Li batts were blowing up when charging on NiCad chargers we would have heard about it on this forum by now. As stated many times, I felt uncomfortable based on my observation of the machinations the charger was going through during the charging process and decided to only use LI chargers with LI batts.....Ray
                    Ray, I'm glad you posted this followup because I do remember you talking about your experiences and how you felt it was a bad idea in spite of what the folks at Ridgid said. Personally I would opt to use the newer lithium charger for the lithium batteries. Crackling noises, risk of improper charging or any potential for hazard is hardly worth the cost of a charger specifically designed to handle the newer batteries. I'm sure as long as older chargers are floating around and people are buying the newer batteries, this question will continue to surface. Thanks.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Free battery for life - Li-ion battery compatability???

                      Originally posted by roadrashray View Post
                      CW.....I always hate coming back to this issue because of a number of things.

                      In defense of Ridgid's recommendation, I can only assume that if Li batts were blowing up when charging on NiCad chargers we would have heard about it on this forum by now. As stated many times, I felt uncomfortable based on my observation of the machinations the charger was going through during the charging process and decided to only use LI chargers with LI batts.....Ray

                      Ray,

                      I too have always kept it pretty simple. If utilizing Lithium batteries, defer to the Lithium charger. It's plainly marked and suggested for that type of battery application and delivers the proper charge indicator/battery defect/fully charged indications. Some tools, regardless how far we try to stretch them, run up against their limits - such is the case with the NiCad charger - handling the Lithium batteries and delivering proper read outs appears to be beyond it's capabilities. It can probably be done, but not suggested. Just my thoughts.
                      Last edited by Spinalzo; 11-18-2009, 03:47 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Free battery for life - Li-ion battery compatability???

                        Originally posted by roadrashray View Post
                        In defense of Ridgid's recommendation, I can only assume that if Li batts were blowing up when charging on NiCad chargers we would have heard about it on this forum by now.
                        Ray,

                        I obviously should have made my earlier, initial, post much clearer when stating "Some Li-Ion batteries have been known to burst into flame if charged wrong!". My referance was meant to warn of using the wrong charger with Li-Ion batteries as attempts to do so in other applications like laptop computers and other electronic devices have resulted in fires, which were well published at the time. I have of course, heard of no such claims with Ridgid batteries. I should have made that very clear, instead of just saying "some Li-Ion" batteries". Obviously my attempt to shorten the post was done in the wrong way, so I just corrected that post.

                        However, considering your experience (thanks for the additional links ) I still think the best advice would be use a charger that is specified for Li-Ion batteries, safety circuit or not. Knowing that "recharging" can be prone to problems with any battery, I feel much more confident if I know the equipment that I'm using is specific to the task and I'm not particular comfortable recommending anything that I myself am not comfortable with. I think you and I are in agreement somewhat.

                        Also, considering that "Engineering says", but then it was found that "it" didn't apply to the older double charger, just makes me wince a wee bit. Such engineering recommendations need to take in all possibilities and not just some of the product chargers. While I've never worked with Ridgid engineers specifically, I've worked with enough in other industries to know that they too are sometimes prone to assumptions.

                        Thanks and I do appreciate your additional investigation and the provided links,

                        CWS

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Free battery for life - Li-ion battery compatability???

                          I put away the 18V Ridgid NiCad charger to keep things simple after upgrading to Lithium batteries and only use the 18V Ridgid Lithium charger to charge Lithium or NiCad batteries

                          (Ryobi lithium charger is also designed to charge 18V Ryobi Lithium or NiCad batteries)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Free battery for life - Li-ion battery compatability???

                            Hi Folks

                            Update: Thanks for your response...

                            I picked up a dual chemistry Rigid charger to be on the safe side...
                            • The new Li-ion fits into both chargers
                            • The old charger does charge the battery, but it is not clear when the charge is complete (no correct lights).
                            • When the Li-ion is charged on the old charger, the Li-ion protective circuit keeps turning the old charger on-and-off constantly once a full charge has been achieved. It appears to go on forever...
                            • The new charger has only 1 slot v the old charger had 2...
                            • It appears that the main advantage of the new charger is that it is easier to know when the Li-ion is ready to go by virtue the lights.
                            • When using the old charger, you are good-to-go when it keeps turning ON-OFF constantly.
                            I will keep testing to validate me assumptions...

                            Thanks
                            Last edited by hs10; 11-21-2009, 01:13 AM.

                            Comment

                            Working...
                            X