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4 1/2 angle grinder question

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  • 4 1/2 angle grinder question

    Hello,

    I have recently purchased a Rigid 4 ½ in. angle grinder. Before using the grinder I was flipping through the owner’s manual and noticed it stated “DANGER: Use ONLY Type 27 center wheels… NEVER attach a Type 1 straight or cut-off wheel to this angle grinder. It is only designed for grinding and sanding. Use for any other purpose is not recommended and creates a hazard, which will result in serious injury.”

    After reading the above note I called the Rigid 800 number that is posted on-line and spoke with a representative. I was told that the grinder (mine is a R1001) did not have the correct clamp nut to safely secure the Type 1 blades, and the thread on the spindle was not in the correct direction. In addition, the 4 ½ grinder did not have the correct guard for Type 1 blades.

    After speaking with Rigid I looked at the 4 ½ DeWALT grinder that I have been using. The spindle is threaded in the same direction as the Rigid, the Rigid disc flange is essentially the same as the DeWALT’s, but the Rigid’s is thicker, more pronounced and appears more durable. Also, the clamp nut is very similar to the DeWALT’s in design but again the Rigid’s is thicker, more pronounced and appears more durable.

    After looking at the DeWALT I then called Rigid back and spoke with a different representative. The second rep. essentially stated the same reasons as the first rep. When asked, both representatives stated that Rigid did not make a 4 ½ angle grinder that was made for using the Type 1 blades. The second representative did state that there could be various reasons why the Type 1 blades couldn’t be used such as patents, other legal reasons, or simply a determination by the engineers for Rigid.

    I would like to point out that each time I spoke with Rigid the representatives were very polite.

    The reason I am writing is I am looking for a specific reason(s) as to why the 4 ½ angle grinder from Rigid can not be used with the Type 1 blade to justify me returning the Rigid grinder? The only reason that would cause me to return it is for safety; however what I’ve been told concerning the spindle, disc flange, and clamp nut doesn’t seem to be adding up.

    Ideally someone from Rigid with some expertise such as an engineer could reply. I am not looking for someone to simply say “don’t worry about it,” “you’re over thinking it,” or the many other similar and/or common comments I have heard from other tradesmen that I work with. Other than possibly the wrong guard for the Type 1 blade use, I can not see why the Rigid 4 ½ grinder can’t be used with the Type 1 straight or cut-off wheel? The way the two brands attach the blades are essentially the same.

    I would like to hear from other tradesmen on your experience, analysis, or thoughts.

    Every person I have spoken with, be it the sales person where I bought the grinder to others tradesmen say they were not aware of the fact and would use the grinder and forget about it. To an extent I agree with it unless there is something I am not aware of on the Rigid disc flange and clamp nut.

    Concerning the DeWALT, I have always simply flipped the clamp nut depending on which type blade I was using, and I do not see why it would be any different on the Rigid?

    More interesting is that the owners manual on-line does not state anything about using either Type 1 or 27 blades at all which further puzzles me! The following link is to the Rigid manual.

    http://www.ridgid.com/ASSETS/E1F537C99FF14CEEA84D0CF948E72187/R1001_919_eng.pdf

    I don’t have the owner’s manual for the DeWALT I own, and DeWALT won’t let me download an owner’s manual if I haven’t registered the tool on-line. Although I looked at the DeWALT manual in the store I would like to have been able to post the link for the manual for your own viewing. DeWALT’s link is below if anyone could help out with this or better yet maybe someone could take a look at their paper version of the DeWALT owners manual to see what they specify.

    Enter the model # in the bottom right hand corner:
    http://www.dewalt.com/parts-and-service.aspx


    Any input would be greatly appreciated.
    Thanks in advance,
    tgg

  • #2
    Re: 4 1/2 angle grinder question

    Just put the cutoff wheel on it and be done with it. I do it everyday with my DeWalts, and any other grinder that is around. It will be fine, just watch your fingers.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: 4 1/2 angle grinder question

      I couldn't find a similar warning on my Ryobi angle grinder, but I do recall reading somewhere that the use of cut-off wheels on certain grinders is not an acceptable practice, due to the particular guard not being OSHA accepted for that purpose.

      But, this is only a recollection and I don't recall where I read it. It's certainly not in my Ryobit manual and I'm wondering if it was on a fact sheet from one of the gringing/cut-off wheel manufacturers. I'll have to do some digging.

      Sorry this isn't more helpful,

      CWS

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: 4 1/2 angle grinder question

        Thank you both for your input.

        As much as I would like to just use it and be done with it, I will likely just return it and opt for another brand. The folks at Rigid almost seem to be making up their reasons as to why the Type 1 blades can’t be used, maybe they just aren’t that familiar with their own products, or maybe I’m overlooking something.

        CWS, you’re correct about the guard usage. I’m aware of the different requirements of guards depending on what blade is being used.

        What frustrates me is if the guard scenario was why Rigid stated the “DANGER…” statement from above then fine, but when I call to inquire about it they gave many other varying reasons, some of which are simply incorrect.

        As it appears to me there isn’t a reason the Type 1 blades can’t be used (outside of the guard situation), but since the paper manual that came with the tool says to not use Type 1 blades then I wouldn’t ask someone working for me to use it.

        Thanks again,
        tgg

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: 4 1/2 angle grinder question

          Originally posted by CWSmith View Post
          I couldn't find a similar warning on my Ryobi angle grinder, but I do recall reading somewhere that the use of cut-off wheels on certain grinders is not an acceptable practice, due to the particular guard not being OSHA accepted for that purpose.

          But, this is only a recollection and I don't recall where I read it. It's certainly not in my Ryobit manual and I'm wondering if it was on a fact sheet from one of the gringing/cut-off wheel manufacturers. I'll have to do some digging
          I did a quick check of my manual for R1001 and I did not see any mention about the warning in question. The R1001 is supplied with an open style guard

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          • #6
            Re: 4 1/2 angle grinder question

            Originally posted by reConx View Post
            I did a quick check of my manual for R1001 and I did not see any mention about the warning in question. The R1001 is supplied with an open style guard

            Click image for larger version

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            reConx,

            Did you check your paper manual or the manual on-line?

            From what I can tell, as I mentioned earlier in my post, “the owners manual on-line does not state anything about using either Type 1 or 27 blades at all”

            Included in the attachment is a scan of the paper manual of the 4 ½ grinder I have, and the blade disclaimer is on the bottom of p.9.

            Still a bit puzzled,
            tgg
            Attached Files

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: 4 1/2 angle grinder question

              It is a UL issue. Here is what the product team asked I post:

              “The RIDGID R1001 Angle Grinder has an included type 27 guard and is certified to Underwriters Laboratories (U.L.) product safety standards. U.L. requires only type 27 depressed center grinding wheels be used with type 27 guards. Type 1 straight or cut-off wheels have no depressed center posing a safety concern to the operator when connected to a type 27 guard. In no circumstance should a type 1 straight cut-off wheel be used with a type 27 guard. Please contact RIDGID customer for further assistance: 866-539-1710.”

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: 4 1/2 angle grinder question

                Originally posted by tgg View Post
                From what I can tell, as I mentioned earlier in my post, “the owners manual on-line does not state anything about using either Type 1 or 27 blades at all”

                Included in the attachment is a scan of the paper manual of the 4 ½ grinder I have, and the blade disclaimer is on the bottom of p.9.
                tgg
                thanks for the update....good to know

                probrand
                thanks for clarifying the issue

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: 4 1/2 angle grinder question

                  What model of 4 1/2' Dewalt grinder are you using? I have an older dw400 and it also specifically states :
                  :

                  Type 1 abrasive and diamond cut off wheels may not be used on this tool. a Type 1 cut-off wheel guard is not available for the dw400.

                  Thanks for posting this question, it is exactly what i wanted to know also.

                  I just found an interesting aside which kind of speaks to warnings.
                  There is a company that makes woodcarving blades for angle grinders called KATOOLS (king arthur).
                  While Ridgid specifically says not to use a wood cutting or wood carving blade of any type in the R1001, this company specifically recommends the R1001 as one of the best tools for their blades!
                  Ya gotta wonder where liability lies when you get injured using this combination. KATOOLS doesn't seem to be nervous, but maybe they're just whistling in the dark until the s**t hits the fan.
                  Last edited by herbfellows; 07-28-2010, 09:27 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: 4 1/2 angle grinder question

                    Originally posted by ProBrand View Post
                    It is a UL issue. Here is what the product team asked I post:

                    “The RIDGID R1001 Angle Grinder has an included type 27 guard and is certified to Underwriters Laboratories (U.L.) product safety standards. U.L. requires only type 27 depressed center grinding wheels be used with type 27 guards. Type 1 straight or cut-off wheels have no depressed center posing a safety concern to the operator when connected to a type 27 guard. In no circumstance should a type 1 straight cut-off wheel be used with a type 27 guard. Please contact RIDGID customer for further assistance: 866-539-1710.”
                    This brings up 2 more questions to me;

                    1) Can you buy a type 1 guard for this tool? I see a Milwaukee guard on Amazon, will it fit?
                    2) Do they make a type 27 diamond cutting wheel?

                    3) Additionally, the manual says you can sand with this tool, but there isn't any rubber backing pad included. Also, no accessories listed for this tool on the Ridgid website.
                    So I called Ridgid, asked for technical. her's what I got;

                    1) Not as far as I know.
                    2) They should, but I'm not sure.
                    3) They mean to use the grinding wheel lightly for sanding!! I'm having a real hard time with that one!
                    This seems to be a very limited tool, sorry to say.
                    Last edited by herbfellows; 07-28-2010, 11:11 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: 4 1/2 angle grinder question

                      I don't have the Ridgid, but do have a similar Ryobi.

                      First off, it's an angle grinder and is designed for that single purpose... hand-held tool for "grinding". I don't believe that it says anything about a hand-held cut-off tool, but perhaps I'm wrong in this interpretation.

                      Now, my Ryobi came with a grinding wheel, knotted wire brush, and a "flap-type" attachment for sanding. So, it is my understanding that for use as a sander, it would only be with the use of a flap-type sanding head.

                      I don't see a high-speed, hand-held, angle-grinder as any other tool, other than a rough, metal working tool. I do know there are all kinds of attachments including those circular chainsaw-like heads for use in rough woodcarving. That's not to say any of those are safe, designed for a particular angle grinder, or for that matter, endorsed for use by any particular manufacturer.

                      We live in a world that is frought with adventursome achievers and ambulance-chasing liability lawyers. While I don't work for Ridgid, I can quite imagine that any manufacturer must have some grave concerns when producing and marketing a tool, that can be easily altered or optioned to do something that was not envisioned in its original design. A manufacturer can loose $millions with misuse of one of their tools, not only in liability payout, but also in legal defense fees, and market loss due to the rumor and reputation that comes with such cases. (Just look at what Ryobi is going through with it's absolutely faultless loss to some idiot who didn't have a clue.)

                      My point is that a tool should be used only to the extent of the design as marketed by its manufacturer. If you see that as a "limit", then don't buy the tool.

                      CWS

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: 4 1/2 angle grinder question

                        Originally posted by CWSmith View Post
                        I don't have the Ridgid, but do have a similar Ryobi.

                        First off, it's an angle grinder and is designed for that single purpose... hand-held tool for "grinding". I don't believe that it says anything about a hand-held cut-off tool, but perhaps I'm wrong in this interpretation.

                        Now, my Ryobi came with a grinding wheel, knotted wire brush, and a "flap-type" attachment for sanding. So, it is my understanding that for use as a sander, it would only be with the use of a flap-type sanding head.

                        I don't see a high-speed, hand-held, angle-grinder as any other tool, other than a rough, metal working tool. I do know there are all kinds of attachments including those circular chainsaw-like heads for use in rough woodcarving. That's not to say any of those are safe, designed for a particular angle grinder, or for that matter, endorsed for use by any particular manufacturer.

                        We live in a world that is frought with adventursome achievers and ambulance-chasing liability lawyers. While I don't work for Ridgid, I can quite imagine that any manufacturer must have some grave concerns when producing and marketing a tool, that can be easily altered or optioned to do something that was not envisioned in its original design. A manufacturer can loose $millions with misuse of one of their tools, not only in liability payout, but also in legal defense fees, and market loss due to the rumor and reputation that comes with such cases. (Just look at what Ryobi is going through with it's absolutely faultless loss to some idiot who didn't have a clue.)

                        My point is that a tool should be used only to the extent of the design as marketed by its manufacturer. If you see that as a "limit", then don't buy the tool.

                        CWS
                        'tool should be used only to the extent of the design as marketed by its manufacturer'
                        Well, they do call it an angle grinder, but according to the manual, that is not its only purpose. The manual specifically states that it can be used for sanding. That's why I bought it. My use, BTW, is hogging out stock on chair seats before final hand sanding.

                        .If the manual didn't say it could be used for sanding, I wouldn't be trying to figure this out. My point is that if the manufacturer tells you it can be used for sanding (which they do), it seems logical to me that they would include instructions and/or the parts to make this happen. Or at the very least, tell you what parts you need and where to get them.I'm just sayin'...
                        As far as cut off wheels go, it doesn't say they should be used, but the fact is that 4 1/2" metal and cement cutting wheels are manufactured by some of the very same companies that make the 4 1/2" grinders that they tell you not to use them on(Dewalt for sure,).
                        I'm confused. If their machines can't use them, why are they manufacturing and selling them? If I'm missing something here, I'd be glad to be schooled, I'm just not seeing it.
                        Last edited by herbfellows; 08-01-2010, 11:23 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: 4 1/2 angle grinder question

                          I didn't say you shouldn't or couldn't use the angle grinder as a sander... the manual says you can, thus it is within the design parameters of the manufacturer.

                          But, an angle grinder (at least not the Ryobi or the Ridgid) does not take a conventional flat faced sanding disc, as a normal hand-held rotational sander would. (Perhaps I misunderstood your original question regarding its use as a sander). Use of a flat-faced sanding disc on a angle grinder might be dangerous in consideration of its much higher RPM.

                          Similarly, the Ridgid manual has some statement to the fact that it shouldn't be used with a flat cut off disc, as the supplied guard does not meet the required safety requirements. (I believe on an earlier thread, Probrand [the Ridgid product rep, here on the forum] provided an excellent response to earlier questions about using a cut-off disc.)

                          I was in the local Home Depot just yesterday and took a few moments to check out their angle grinder supplies. They offered several "grits" in sanding flap discs for use with angle grinders. I believe they were all Norton brand and were of the depressed-center type which would meet the necessary safety requirements for the Ridgid angle grinder. They also had depressed-center cut off wheels too (IIRC), as well as wire brush wheels designed for angle grinder use. Prices for the flap disc were around $6 as I recall.

                          On the subject of "hogging out chair seats", I seem to recall seeing an old issue of wood magazine where someone had made a jig for use with a router, that did an excellent job of doing that. I only mention this as it seems like a more efficient and perhaps more precise way of accomplishing that task (but of course I'm not of any opinion on which is best, and only offer it as another method if you haven't considered it.)

                          I hope this helps,

                          CWS

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