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Batteries are eligible for LSA only if part of a tool purchase

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  • Batteries are eligible for LSA only if part of a tool purchase

    I am a bit perplexed by this.

    If you buy a tool or a combo tool set, and it comes with two batteries, those batteries are eligible for LSA as you register for the entire kit.

    However, if you pay $69 or $99 for a single replacement battery, that battery is NOT eligible for LSA.

    It seems illogical to me. Someone enlighten me.

    It means I would always buy tools that comes with batteries but never a battery by itself.

  • #2
    Re: Batteries are eligible for LSA only if part of a tool purchase

    being that no one else offers a lifetime service agreement with free batteries, (insane by the way) i think they can be afforded a few rules just "because"

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    • #3
      Re: Batteries are eligible for LSA only if part of a tool purchase

      so if you buy a kit, and register it properly for the lsa, AND as a promotion you get a free battery with the kit and register IT, should you use this third battery as your primary battery so that it wears out first since it has a limited warranty, and save the 2 batteries included with the kit as your backup or second batteries since their covered for a longer period?

      how big is their market share now after years of offering the lsa? if it was such a big influence on ppeoplesbuying decisions then you would think they would own the cordless tool market, but clearly they do not because none of their competitors are crying uncle or have gone TU. so iI'mthinking its such a big deal in the minds of buyers and has only been done to increase their market share above what was a low percentage of the cordless market and bring sales to a respectable level, one that justifies keeping the line of tools active. And maybe that is part of why you don't see a full line of tools as many have asked for.

      I don't know just thinking out loud.
      Last edited by Bob D.; 04-27-2012, 03:43 AM.
      "When we build let us think we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone. Let it be such work that our descendants will thank us for, and let us think, as we lay stone upon stone, that a time is to come when these stones will be held sacred because our hands have touched them, and that men will say, as they look upon the labor and wrought substance of them, "See! This our fathers did for us."
      John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)

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      • #4
        Re: Batteries are eligible for LSA only if part of a tool purchase

        It is very logical and quite simple really, because it's a Ridgid promotion, they can set the rules for what qualifies for the LLSA and what doesn't.
        ================================================== ====
        ~~Don't worry about old age; it doesn't last that long.

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        • #5
          Re: Batteries are eligible for LSA only if part of a tool purchase

          Some very good thoughts here. My own opinion is somewhat along the same line of thinking. The LLSA was originally promoted as an encentive to buy the tools when they were first introduced back in 2003. I don't have the flyer presently in front of me, but it was something like the promotion was to instill in the mind of the buyer that Ridgid (actually TTI) has enough confidence in the tools and their "quality" that it was willing to "put it's money where it's mouth is"... back them up with this "LLSA". After a couple of years (2005, I believe) that LLSA program was dropped, but then restarted within the year IIRC.

          Basically, I think, the promotion is to get you to buy their "tools", and not just a battery. For buying their "tools" they offer the LLSA which includes all major components of the tools, including any batteries that may be included. But, a "battery" is a significantly less purchase and therefore probably much less profitable for them to be able to "promote" such an outstanding thing as free replacement for life, as the LLSA does.

          I've never been quite able to grasp this "LLSA" concept from a business point of view however. While nice for the consumer who takes advantage of it, it just seems like such a troublesome program for the Ridgid-brand reputation. So many "bitches" about poor service, back-ordered parts, sparcely located service centers, etc. We all know that batteries wear out, charger circuits seem to fail, and there's no guard against just general abuse by the user. And far too many complaints of people who refuse to understand the necessity of properly registering into the system and then because they don't, they widely complain about the short-comings of the Ridgid brand of tools.

          Given all of that, and Home Depot's inability to really promote "Ridgid" over other brands, makes me wonder what is the objective of even being in that market, and especially being in that market with an unparalled service program like the LLSA that might be financially draining? Like I said, I don't get it... but I'm quite happy as a fan of Ridgid tools to know that I have that "coverage". For me, it is a very good encentive to buy that brand over others, and perhaps that is enough for TTI to keep the "Ridgid" brand and also to keep promoting it with the LLSA encentive.

          CWS
          Last edited by CWSmith; 04-27-2012, 10:55 AM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Batteries are eligible for LSA only if part of a tool purchase

            I understand they can set whatever rules they like.

            My question was more along the lines of the rationalization behind it.

            See, I can go buy a new combo kit - a 18V drill, a 18V one handed sawzall, a charger, two batteries today for $169. That comes with a free battery. So I walk away with two tools and three batteries and a charger.

            Or I can just pick up three batteries individually, at $69.95 each, for a total of $210.

            Of course I would buy the tool kit instead, even if I don't need the tools (I already have them). It's far cheaper and I get LSA on the two batteries but not on the free one.

            The end result - I now have tools that I have sit around unused because I already have those tools. They become good spare tools in the future or they just sit there.

            Then the only way I can rationalize it is Ridgid has confidence in their tools, but not in their batteries.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Batteries are eligible for LSA only if part of a tool purchase

              CWS, I wonder, if Ridgid one day decides to terminate the LSA program, does it mean the current LSA eligible tools will no longer have support or only for customers who buy new tools from that day forward.

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              • #8
                Re: Batteries are eligible for LSA only if part of a tool purchase

                Originally posted by miamicuse View Post
                I understand they can set whatever rules they like.

                My question was more along the lines of the rationalization behind it.

                See, I can go buy a new combo kit - a 18V drill, a 18V one handed sawzall, a charger, two batteries today for $169. That comes with a free battery. So I walk away with two tools and three batteries and a charger.

                Or I can just pick up three batteries individually, at $69.95 each, for a total of $210.

                Of course I would buy the tool kit instead, even if I don't need the tools (I already have them). It's far cheaper and I get LSA on the two batteries but not on the free one.

                The end result - I now have tools that I have sit around unused because I already have those tools. They become good spare tools in the future or they just sit there.

                Then the only way I can rationalize it is Ridgid has confidence in their tools, but not in their batteries.
                Think your reading a little too much into it. Dont think there is a diabolical plan behind it. Its just incentive.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Batteries are eligible for LSA only if part of a tool purchase

                  Originally posted by miamicuse View Post
                  CWS, I wonder, if Ridgid one day decides to terminate the LSA program, does it mean the current LSA eligible tools will no longer have support or only for customers who buy new tools from that day forward.
                  Miamicuse,

                  My opinion is of course only conjecture on my part and certainly I have no connection or special insight into the workings or mindset of TTI or Emerson. That said, I believe that the "LLSA" as it has been presented, is a legal "agreement" which the seller has committed to uphold to those customers who have properly registered for it. I haven't read that "Agreement" in some time and don't have it in front of me now, but I do not recall there being any "fine print" that says the seller can cancel at their option. (Anyone please feel free to correct me, if I've overlooked such a statement.)

                  So to answer your question, in my opinion, if TTI wishes to terminate the LLSA program on future sales of their Ridgid-brand tools, it is certainly entitled to do so. But, I do not think that it would have any effect on those of us who presently are registered into the LLSA system.

                  IIRC (and this corrects my initial post above), the "LLSA" program was introduced with the initial announcement and promotion of the new line of "orange" Ridgid-brand tools in mid-2003. That "introduction" was initially set for all "Ridgid-brand" tool purchases made through December 31st, 2003... but as the end of the year approached, the "LLSA eligibility date" was pushed back another month, into either the end of January or February of 2004 (I really need to look that up). At that time, it was dropped (here is the "correction" on my previous post) and any purchase made after that January or February, 2004 end date was made without the LLSA being available. At some time in 2005, the LLSA was started up again and continues today. What I am NOT sure about is whether those tools that were purchased between February 2004 and the re-introduction of the LLSA in 2005 were eligible for registration into the LLSA system.

                  Regarding your statement, "Then the only way I can rationalize it is Ridgid has confidence in their tools, but not in their batteries."

                  While I can see where one might make such an assumption, I don't believe that is the case here. I too have a tendency to think that at times there may be some devious thinking behind corporate logic, it probably is only a simple actuarial matter. The probable answer is that the "numbers" just don't support bringing something like a lone battery into a "Lifetime Service" or replacement guarantee. It's not a matter of the company having confidence in the product, it simply a matter that with present technology and engineering the "battery" is never going to be something that will last a "lifetime"... IT will require replacement and that is the end of the story.

                  So, let's look at it as if it was YOUR company... your accounting and actuarial (see below) folks tell you whether your grand ideas will cost you or profit you. They'll also run the "marketing" figures to see what your competitors are doing and what your investments will produce in the face of that. If you and your competitor sell your individual batteries at similar prices then why would you put yours under any existing "lifetime" replacement agreement... nobody else is!

                  (Accounting folks do the simple math to tell your what you spend and what you take in and then give you a "bottom line". But, "Actuarial" folks "crunch the numbers" provided by engineering, sales, service and marketing research to come up with feesibility ROI possibilities of "ideas". They're the people who tell you whether a little twitch here or there in your company will pay off in the long run.)

                  In the case of your batteries, the price under an "LLSA" would have to cover the cost of not the initial one that you buy, but all the replacements that they will have to give you over a "lifetime". If you're 20 years old, that may well be ten or more batteries, and since there is no particular "tool" that they are connected with, that LLSA offer may well be beyond the life of many different tools that you have used it on. As you can see, that simply isn't going to fly very well with your accounting dept or with your board of directors. However, the LLSA may still be something of an "encentive" to buyers if you wish to further your market penetration. But even then, I think this is a program that needs to be looked at from a "cost" point of view and I am sure it must be getting occasional scrutiny from TTI.

                  I hope this helps,

                  CWS
                  Last edited by CWSmith; 04-28-2012, 10:57 AM.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Batteries are eligible for LSA only if part of a tool purchase

                    I of course have no possible way of knowing this for certain but I'll bet that the actual costs involved in maintaining the LLSA Program for TTI is far less than many here think it is. Most defective issues will happen during the initial warranty period and that cost is already built into the cost of the tool. For those who use their tools on an everyday basis battery replacement will be a cost to TTI but for the hobbyist and average homeowner I doubt if many will ever need a free battery. Unless the average person has a very convient way to obtrain free batteries and/or LLSA service for a broken hand tool most would probably opt for just replacing it with a new one if there is any age at all to the tool, i.e. over 5 years old. Remember, we are a throw away society now and fixing broken anythings happens less and less as it's just "too much of a hassle".
                    ================================================== ====
                    ~~Don't worry about old age; it doesn't last that long.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Batteries are eligible for LSA only if part of a tool purchase

                      I'm with badger on this, I think your right.

                      What I dont get is the people who come here complaining that thier tool broke and now they dont have it for a few weeks when its out being serviced. Regardless of brand, why would anyone not have a backup of any tool they own if they make a living off that tool? The LLSA is great, but an extra drill in the truck or battery is just a no brainer. Most of us that depend on these tools will most likely just add the extra tools down the road to get a couple extra batteries anyway, and have the back up tool.

                      miamicuse, you have a point in just buying the extra tools for the batteries, it makes sense some times to do so, I have. Then, if you dont want the extra tools, you can hock them on craigslist, ebay or even here and recoupe the costs, heck sometimes end up with batteries for nearly nothing by selling the bare tool.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Batteries are eligible for LSA only if part of a tool purchase

                        I noticed at my local Home Depot, that Milwaukee and Makita are now also giving away a free battery with purchase of their tools.

                        Wouldn't it be nice, that one day, the batteries are made by a third party that would work on any tools, all the tool makers do is to make tools that will accept the generic batteries? Sort of like how we buy car tires.

                        Then we can buy tools for the merit of the tools and take the batteries out of the equation.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Batteries are eligible for LSA only if part of a tool purchase

                          Originally posted by miamicuse View Post
                          I noticed at my local Home Depot, that Milwaukee and Makita are now also giving away a free battery with purchase of their tools.

                          Wouldn't it be nice, that one day, the batteries are made by a third party that would work on any tools, all the tool makers do is to make tools that will accept the generic batteries? Sort of like how we buy car tires.

                          Then we can buy tools for the merit of the tools and take the batteries out of the equation.
                          Amen, amen, amen! Not really sure why this hasn't happened already.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Batteries are eligible for LSA only if part of a tool purchase

                            Originally posted by Alphacowboy View Post
                            Amen, amen, amen! Not really sure why this hasn't happened already.
                            $$$$$

                            That's pretty much the answer as to "why this hasn't happened"... I've been waiting for printer ink to go that route, which will never, ever happen I think. (But I don't complain either as I'm not a big "printer" of stuff... and when I run out of ink, for just a couple bucks more, I buy a whole new printer!)

                            What I am surprised at is that no one has stepped up and made a "conversion" box, that would fit the tool of your choice and then take a much cheaper competitive battery. A manufacturer could make a battery, and adapters for most popular bands... sort of a "reverse" on that little "adapter" that Ridgid made for their JobMax, that would allow you to use blades from Dremel or Bosch. You could also offer and AC plug-in to go along with those adapters.

                            (So, if any of you guys want to go on the "Shark Tank" and pitch this idea... your remembrance of me would greatly be appreciated by my ever-so-thin wallet

                            CWS

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Batteries are eligible for LSA only if part of a tool purchase

                              Bosch just stepped up and offer two free 18v batteries for any 18v tools purchased.

                              Bosch® Lithium Ion. BEST BUILT. Guaranteed.

                              Interesting...

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