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  • BS14002 Trials and Tribulations

    I just finished assemblying my gray bandsaw.

    The first order in setting up the saw was to balance the wheels. I removed the left blade guard and the blade. I reinstalled the blade guard but reversed it with the opening facing out. I did this to facilitate removing and installing the blade. Next I balanced the upper and lower wheels. I used lead tape as weights, installed on the inside of the rim. Then I put the blade on, tensioned it properly and ran the motor to check for vibration. There was some vibration, so I rechecked the wheels for balance. They were out of balance. I thought I had balanced the wheels incorrectly the first time.

    I rebalanced the wheels, installed the blade and ran the motor for 30 seconds. I stopped to check the wheel balance. Same results - out of balance. I suspected that the tire moved around the wheel when run. To test my theory, I made a chalk mark across the tire to the wheel. I reinstalled the blade and ran the motor for 30 seconds. When I checked my marks I noticed that the tire mark had moved one inch counterclockwise from the wheel mark. Without any further adjustments, I ran the motor once more. I stopped to check the marks and found that the separation had increased yet again. This confirmed my theory that the tire does slip around the wheel. I then removed the tire, noting that the tire was not glued to the wheel. I also noticed that no factory balancing of the wheels had been done. There was no evidence of this being done.

    This does not indicate to me that the saw is a quality tool. In my mind it is more of a toy. Fortunately I did not pay much for it so I am still working with it.

    I balanced the wheels carefully with no tires installed. I had to install more than one ounce of lead tape, carefully distributing it on the rim. I installed the tires without glue. Then I ran the motor once again. The vibration is still there. I think that new tires may help resolve the problem and will be contacting Ridgid to get these.

    Have any of you had the same experience with your BS14002?

    I hope that I can resolve the problem. The band saw is a good looking machine. If only Ridgid had gone to the effort of balancing the wheels, this could be a good tool for the money. It would also be good if they would use a poly V belt instead of the supplied V belt.

    I'm looking forward to reading other's experiences.

  • #2
    I also noticed on my gray BS14002 that the wheels are out of balance. They have evidence of an attempt at balancing - partial holes drilled in the rims. But when the blade is off, they always stop at the same position. I had a severely out of round tire - about 0.030 inches. It was causing the whole upper arm to bob up and down. Now that I've replaced it, vibration has reduced significantly. I haven't checked to see if the tires slip.

    My concern now is that the guide post is not quite parallel to the blade - about 1/16" off (long guide post with riser block kit). I think that is probably typical with saws in this price range. Trying to decide if I can live with it or correct it somehow.

    Comment


    • #3
      If your wheels are out of round, they definitely need to be replaced. However I"m confused at what your actual problem is. It sounds like you're putting way too much work into this saw either fixing a big problem or overanalyzing a situation that does not exist. You should not need to balance wheel with lead tape.

      I don't quite understand your balancing wheels with blade off. Are you referring to planar / vs coplanar? Anyway. The tires are not supposed to be glued on but should fit snugly. You should place blade in middle of saw with tool unplugged. tension the blade properly and track the blade. It should ride on the center. If it is sliding forward or backwards on tire, adjust the screw on the back of bandsaw to compensate. I do not have Ridgid own a delta but from what you are describing you are putting way too much work into this procedure.

      If this is not working, you should try calling customer service. If they don't satisfy you, I'd take saw back.

      Hope this helps

      Jake

      Comment


      • #4
        I'm with Jake in having some confusion. Out of the box, on my Delta, I checked for the wheels being co-planner, which they were, put the blade on and manually adjusted for centering---turned on the saw--fined tuned adjustments and away you go. Certainly, there can be issues with a cheaper saw, but don't think anyone ever claimed the Ridgid was a delux saw----more a matter of expectations vs. dollars spent.
        Dave

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by daveferg:
          I'm with Jake in having some confusion. Out of the box, on my Delta, I checked for the wheels being co-planner, which they were, put the blade on and manually adjusted for centering---turned on the saw--fined tuned adjustments and away you go. Certainly, there can be issues with a cheaper saw, but don't think anyone ever claimed the Ridgid was a delux saw----more a matter of expectations vs. dollars spent.
          Dave I suppose I could do a search on all the forums on line but to save me a little time what Delta band saw do you have. I'm trying to make up my mind if I should up grade from my old three wheeler...Bob

          Comment


          • #6
            Bob----model numbers keep changing---I have the closed stand 14"---bought before Delta came out with their import clone of this model. Street price about $850, though I got it for $750 (show and display model). Great saw, built like a rock. Drooled over it for 5 years until I finally pulled the trigger----well worth the wait.
            Dave

            Comment


            • #7
              I'm happy to see that my trials and tribulations have sparked some interesting comments.

              My wife would agree with the comments that I overanalyed this problem. I can't help it. I am a Type A person, at least according to my Doctor.

              I'm not sure if you guys are pulling my leg or not. Since I assume not I will proceed.

              I understand why some of you are confused with what I have done with my new band saw. For those of you who bought Delta bandsaws, you certainly have a first rate tool. Delta claims that they balance the wheels before shipping the tool, so that the owner does not have to balance the wheels.

              I am somewhat familiar with the quality of Delta, as I am in the process of restoring a vintage Delta bandsaw.

              As to the Ridgid saw, I unpacked the saw, assembled it per the owner's manual, installed the blade and checked the tracking and tension, then performed the manual's other recommended adjustments. However, when I turned on the switch to test the tool, I discovered a rather significant vibration. I suspected bad bearings, out of round wheels or out of balance wheels. I'm sure you have experienced vibration in your car's steering wheel from an out of round or out of balance tire. This is what drove me to check the wheels for balance. To balance the wheels I removed everything that would prohibit free spinning, including the blade. When I did that the wheel stopped at the same spot each time, confirming to me that the wheel was out of balance. I used the same technique to balance the wheel as I would to balance a car tire, using the same lead tape that is used on mag wheels.

              Furthermore, when I removed the tire from the wheel, there was no indication that it had been factory balanced, i.e. no holes drilled in the rim.

              I am confident that I can solve this problem with the help of Ridgid CS. My intent with my original posting of this thread was to share my experience to date.

              When I bought this saw, my expectation was that it would work as designed. Otherwise I would not have bought it. This is the same expectation you would have buying a 2424, 3612 or 3650 saws. Otherwise you might have bought a UNISAW.

              Due to the lower price of the Ridgid saw, I expected that it would work, but I also realized that there might be a few adjustments needed to get it set up and adjusted correctly. Had I bought a new Delta saw for a much higher price, I would have expected it to be correct out of the box.

              As I mentioned earlier, maybe you are all pulling my leg. I view your comments about your Delta saws like this. If I buy a Kia and you buy a Porsche, we shouldn't expect the same performance out of our vehicles

              I have several other Ridgid tools to unpack and set up in my shop, so you will continue to hear from me, unless my wife gets her wish. That is for me to return to my previous hobbies of fixing cars and playing golf. She told me that she has never seen a shop teacher with all ten fingers intact -- but that would be another thread for another time.

              Comment


              • #8
                Nuggy,

                Congrats on converting your Rigid Band saw into a precision machine. You mentioned that you are restoring an older Delta Band saw.

                Are any of the dimensions the same between the two brands of saw? Or more specifically, will the wheels interchange between the two brands of saw?

                Since our discussions on these topics, I have checked my machine and found that the upper wheel is out of balance and the lower wheel is not. To be honest, I have never really put too much thought into the balance of the wheel. I just set up my saw and got to work. The Saw does what it is supposed to do.

                Using your analogy, I did buy a KIA and never expected a Porsche. The Rigid Band saw does everything the manufacturer says it is supposed to and I never thought it should do more.

                At its price level, I am pleased. If I had an extra $1,200 when I purchased my saw, I probably would have been looking at a Laguna.

                Please keep us posted as you blueprint your saw and let us know what is effective.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Desmo888

                  Before I answer your question about the wheel compatibility with Ridgid, let me tell you a little about the vintage Delta bandsaw.

                  The good folks at Delta helped tremendously in my investigation of this machine and were able to dig up an owner's manual for me.

                  The Delta model number is 890. There are two versions of the 890 model. The earlier version and the later version. The earlier version was made in 1933 and was on the market for 3 years. In 1936 Delta made a major revision and kept the new design up to about 1990. The biggest change in the later version is in the lower blade guide mechanism, which seems to be the signature feature of the Delta bandsaw.

                  My bandsaw is the earlier version. The upper wheel is 6 spokes and made of aluminum. The lower wheel is stamped steel and is solid (no spokes). This was the preferred Delta design, but the manufacturing costs were prohibitive. So in 1936 they began to use the cast wheels.

                  The upper wheel can be fitted to the Ridgid saw. However, the thickness of the Delta hub is 5 mm greater than the Ridgid. The Delta wheels are very robust. Spokes are 2.5 inches wide.

                  The lower wheel cannot be fitted to the Ridgid as it has a tapered hole. The later model Delta wheel will probably fit because it has a straight hole.

                  What is really surprising to me is the this 1933 Bandsaw is almost identical to the Ridgid bandsaw in its features. The current bandsaw has no significant improvement in its design over the vintage Delta, including the blade guide design. The upper casting is a solid tube as compared to the open casting of the current bandsaw.

                  My problem with the vintage machine is that, when I got it it had a broken trunnion support bracket (cast iron) and this part is no longer available from Delta. The later version has all parts available from Delta (going back to 1936) - pretty amazing. I was told by a scientist that it is technically impossible to weld cast iron. But there are many welders willing to try. A friend of mine with welding equipment and experience is going to try to weld it tomorrow. I'll report on my success or failure after tomorrow.

                  As for my new Ridgid bandsaw, I glued tire to wheel because it was slipping significantly around the wheel. Now it can pass the nickle test.
                  I still have to sand the tire so that every point on the tire surface is equidistant from the center of the wheel. I'll post results on this later as well.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Nuggy

                    Interesting thought in reading your post. The reason why some people like to buy from Jet / Powermatic / Delta, the big 3 I like to call them. Is for the reason you just mentioned. Delta has parts available for machines made in 1936. That speaks volumes to me. Most of us who purchase nice machines such as tablesaws, bandsaws, and the like would like to use them for our lives and someday hand them down to children if appropriate or give to some other ambitions woodworker. One of the reasons I stick with the big 3. I have heard of companies ( don't quote me but it was either Grizzly or General??? that had a CS and 2 years later changed design and did not have available parts for their machines from that date on. If the customer has a problem with those saws. SOL.

                    Peace of mind is worth something these days

                    Just a thought.

                    Jake

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Well, I didn't see anything involving a quality saw blade being installed, which is the number 1 reason the saw doesn't work as expected. i'd be willing to bet that the saw's vibration would be greatly reduced if a good blade was installed and you started from scratch again.

                      Comment

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