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R4513 IS DIFFERENT MODEL THAN R4510 attn:DanMuresan

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  • #31
    Hey thanks for the response! It's too bad we don't live in the same city so that I could go buy the 4513 and we could compare them side by side. I have seen a 4513 display model and that's how I found out about the plastic gear teeth, but as far as the higher RPM and how that affects power, like I said before, you would have to know what the gearing was on both motors, or you would have to actually try them out side by side. If someone from Ridgid doesn't chime in here soon, then I'll probably just buy the 4510 before they're all gone!

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    • #32
      Well let's put it this way, Dan's silence probably means something. If the R4513 was a marked improvement, they'd be screaming about it from the rooftops. I mean, it's only natural to promote new model features and performance enhancements. With the glaring silence, it seems to reinforce the thought of the changes purely being a cost savings move, especially considering the price drop. I'm still not sure how the OP came to the conclusion that removed features and changes from standard throat plates equal a positive, but it seems there is considerable evidence of cheapening the product. Regarding the motor, all else equal, to accommodate a higher rpm, you would think you need taller gearing which in turn would reduce the torque in direct proportion. I've never owned anything but an old 7-1/4" table top, so it's very hard for me to grasp the nuances. However, it does seem at face value that at the same price, the R4510 is the better unit.
      Last edited by mrmaglo; 01-03-2015, 01:11 PM.

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      • #33
        Good point about the silence, and come to think of it, usually the box of a new item will have a notation on the front saying "New and Improved", when the item is actually improved. So either the item is not improved, as we suspect, or else Ridgid needs to fire their marketing manager for missing a golden opportunity to promote their "New and Improved" product.

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        • #34
          Here is the email which I sent today to Gregg (Producthelp@ridgidmail.com) to try to get some answers to the questions which many of us have:


          Hi Greg,

          Dan Muresan at RIDGID said to write to you.

          Several of us prospective buyers of the new R4513 have questions about it, especially as compared to the R4510 which apparently is no longer being manufactured, but is still being sold in many Home Depot stores. There are a lot of questions about the difference in the motors.

          Would you please take a look at the questions and comments posted in the RIDGID Forum
          https://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/po...ttn-danmuresan
          and then answer our questions and reply to our comments?

          Also, there are at least three other shorter RIDGID Forum discussions of the new R4513
          https://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/po...purchase-r4510
          https://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/po...r4510-vs-r4513
          https://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/po...ft-start-motor
          Perhaps, you or someone else at RIDGID could consolidate all four discussions into one discussion or post a comment in three of them directing prospective purchasers to the one forum designated to be the definitive discussion about the R4513. That, and your answering the questions (as requested above), would clear up a lot of confusion and end up in RIDGID selling more of these portable job site table saws.

          Lastly, I obtained the R4513 Operators Manual and tried several times to post it in the first Forum in this email; but I cannot, and I assume others cannot, access it there (probably due to the size of the file). I think that if you can make it accessible there or post the link to it, it will answer some of the questions which prospective buyers have.

          Thank you very much,

          Sandy
          Last edited by Sandyon66; 01-04-2015, 11:25 AM. Reason: Corrected a typo

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          • #35
            Thanks Sandy x4.

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            • #36
              As a quick follow up, I finally bit the bullet and called the tech line and mentioned this and the other treads about the R4510 vs R4513 and Dan's lack of response on the questions. While I appreciate Sandy reaching out to Gregg, on a different issue, I never got a reply to that email address, so I'm not holding my breath.

              I actually spoke to someone who had both models right near them and while I was on the phone, they reviewed both side by side with me. Above and beyond the items from the OP, here's a few things that got confirmed. Please keep in mind that I do not have a R4513, and my R4510 is still in the box, so I cannot confirm any of this.

              Regarding the 'Plastic Gear Teeth' question raised by Carpenter1, evidently, the blade height gear has always been plastic and remains plastic for the R4513. However, the R4510 had metal gears for the bevel, while the R4513 is now plastic. Yes, the micro adjust is gone, and from what this person said, they are getting a number of calls about this wondering is the old fence could be used. I was told that the old fence will not fit on the new unit, so there was a change on the 'rails' too.

              Yes, there were a lot of little changes as mentioned by the OP, which for the most part isn't that significant, but the housing of the R4510 seems to be slightly more sturdy. Yes, the throat plate is not std anymore, so be aware of that. They do have new plates coming.

              Regarding the motor, this person could not help much there. However, the recent R4510's absolutely did NOT have soft start motors, so that is NOT a change. The difference in RPM might slightly reduce the actual work torque, but this person said they could not tell much difference using them side by side. As a matter of fact, both seemed to perform identically power-wise.

              I guess there is a tiny change in the wheels of the stand, but that's about it.

              Ultimately, I asked the most important question: If this person what looking to buy either saw at the same price, which one would they choose, and this person said the R4510. However, it's not that big of a deal. Both do the job very well, so they wouldn't loose any sleep if the local HD was out of the old one. Both do the job very well and both have the LSA, so you can rest assured they will stand up to a lifetime of quality use. From what they could tell, the changes were designed to make the unit more efficient for manufacture without cheapening the unit to allow a more competitive price point. From what we've been able to piece together, I buy that. They have not received a change log, so this person could only reflect on the changes they have noticed using both side by side.

              Lastly, this person apologized that we've been stonewalled by Dan for the last 3 months on this thread. There is no secret agenda, and no doubt Dan's lack of response created unneeded confusion, and that was unnecessary. This person regretted this, and would mention this to their supervisor.

              Hopefully this will help. I think I'll open my box now.
              Last edited by mrmaglo; 01-05-2015, 06:06 PM.

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              • #37
                Thanks for the work mrmaglo. Based on the info you found out, I too would feel better about buying a R4510. The R4513 may prove itself over time, but the 4510 is already proven! If the Ridgid tech line had told you that the new motor was much stronger then I would probably take a chance on the rest of the changes, but that not being the case, I'll try and find a leftover 4510. It would be nice to have a follow up in six months or so from the guys who went with the new model, to see if there are any problems. Thanks again for the follow up mrmaglo!

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                • #38
                  mrmaglo thank you very much for those efforts and all that info from the Ridgid tech line.

                  When I communicated with Dan, he told me that Gregg was taking over for him on this and other power tools. I asked him to post that in this discussion and in the other R4510/R4513 discussion https://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/po...purchase-r4510 and Dan did that on 11-03-2014.

                  I believe that we will have info from Gregg soon. Gregg not only received my email (see above) Sunday morning, but also he replied to me Sunday morning:

                  Sandy,
                  I am checking into this and have forwarded your information to the Marketing also to help get the information needed. They may contact you or just me and then I will let you know what they say. One way or another someone will answer your questions.
                  Thanks,
                  Greg


                  So we should have additional info from Ridgid soon.

                  I can email the R4513 Operators Manual to you or anyone else who would like to see it. Just send me a PM.


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                  • #39
                    Thanks for the update Sandy. I hope they can come back and finally put together all the pieces, but I've got enough now to make the decision for me. I am planning to start putting my R4510 together right after I clear all the snow. Not that I have any urgent uses, but I'm just dying to get this enormous box out of the garage!

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                    • #40
                      Hey Sandy - any follow up from Gregg? Also, check your PM. Thx man!

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                      • #41
                        I bought the 4513 several days ago. Used it today and there was something wonky w the motor, sounded like a cement mixer when it started and stopped. Took it back and it was replaced w 4510. Other than the motor working much better here is what I noticed.

                        4513, all plastic and pretty flimsy. The case splays when pushed or moved. The arbor is a joke, in order to get the overtorqed preinstalled blade off I had had to pull so hard started deforming the saw casing and bent the open end of the arbor wrench. The square throat plate is magnetic and rectangular and got a 1/4 dado to clear it.

                        4510, all plastic and still flimsy but much mor rigid w the grey bottom casing tieing everything together. Much better arbor and arbor nut, a breeze to switch blades. I kept my dado setup (advanti stack) from the 4513 and it wont clear the throat of the 4510. Lastly there is much more metal holding the saw motor in the 4510 then the 4513.

                        Oh yeah, the saw stand is better on the 4513

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                        • #42
                          mrmaglo, Here is what Greg wrote to me:

                          ---------------------------------------------------------------------
                          "I have got some word back about the r4513 saw. There is not much difference between the 2 saw as we see it. As a customer you may see it differently. The things like the r4513 has a really good soft start on it. the RPM of the motor is 600 faster than the r4510. Some parts have a different shape like the throat plate is now square instead curved. The information is in the process of being added to the website and should be there soon. Things like owner’s manual and parts list. Sorry but the forum threads cannot be combined but there should also be something going on there also. I do not have the access to comment on it so I have sent the information to the person that handles that. If you have any specific questions you would like answered please ask and I will answer any that I can."

                          "We are coming up with something to address the forum with but when they will post it I do not know. I can tell you that both tools are good tools so no matter what model number you chose it will be a good one."
                          -----------------------------------------------------------------------

                          As posted above by Dan, Greg's address is Producthelp@ridgidmail.com Anyone can send questions to him. Once they get a reply, please post it here so that all of us can see it.

                          QUESTION FOR RIDGID:
                          Who and Where is Dan Muresan's replacement, who presumably was going to be watching this and the other three discussions about the R4513 and responding directly?

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                          • #43
                            Thanks for sharing Sandy. Interesting claim about the 'new' soft start motor, as the parts and the tech I spoke too were very familiar with the debacle with the original soft start motor on the R4510, and were well aware of the change as that motor was problematic. When I specifically asked to compare the latest R4510 motor vs the new R4513 motor, I was told they were both NON soft start, and the only difference was the gearing, which yes increased RPM by 600, but in theory, would ever so slightly reduce the actual work load torque. Their words, no mine.

                            So, it's really nice that Gregg is finally putting the fire under his comrades to get on the same pages and clear some of the smoke here. Too bad over the last 3 months, that dud Dan didn't lift a finger, nor did he respond to my PM either. Good riddance.

                            Thanks man.

                            Oh, here's the manual for the R4513. I hope this works

                            Attached Files

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                            • #44
                              Here's Info Obtained from the TTI Product Team:

                              "Essentially the R4513 was a lifecycle refresh. We enhanced the appearance a bit and made some internal improvements as well.

                              We upgraded the throat plate to magnet retention as opposed to a spring tab and height/leveling adjustments are made via Phillips head screws (instead of hex). The Phillips heads are more easily adjusted with common jobsite tools instead of searching for the right hex wrench which can be a pain.

                              The blade bevel stop adjustments are now located at the front of the saw for better visibility and easier adjustment. The R4510 had them on top.

                              Motor speed was bumped up from 4,400 to 5,000 RPM…so the 15A motor tends to cut with greater speed but with the same accuracy.

                              The R4513 has soft start as well so despite the additional speed, it still gradually achieves that speed with a slight delay which helps preserve gears and bearing life.

                              Cut capacities remain unchanged as does the stand design which is still operated via a single push pedal. The R4513 still has all the accessory storage and micro bevel adjustment too."

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                              • #45
                                Thanks Sandy. In reviewing both manuals, I'm not quite getting the comment on the Bevel Adjustment locations. While the lock lever handle looks a tiny bit different (cheaper) the adjusting handwheel, indicator, and scale are in the exact same place. Pretty easy to see in Fig. 3 on page 9. No clue what he means by them being on top for the R4510?

                                The throat plate now being magnetic and adjusted with Phillips, minor positive I guess, but going non-standard wipes that all out plus. I'm not sure if they even have additional plates available yet?

                                Motor RPM/Torque I guess is a wash in actual operation, but based on the other inaccuracies/omissions, I'm not sure I'm 100% about the soft start motor, seeing the tech insists this is not the case. Not that this is a big issue, especially with the LSA, but I would prefer a SS if that's true.

                                No mention of the bevel gears going from metal from plastic, which is big negative in my book. The lost micro fence adjust and changed rails also not mentioned, but not a biggie. Push stick, wrench changes all missed, but those are really non-issues.

                                Good first start, but seems they are still getting their notes together. Thanks again for your work on this. We're getting closer, but I pretty much agree they are very close and neither is a bad saw.

                                PS - The manual attachment didn't work for me either.

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