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  • TS3650 Economics for Dummies

    I think most of us appreciate the fact Ridgid hit a good balance between fair and smart about getting a good saw into this price range.

    I have 2 other Ridgid tools. Consider each to be better values than the comparable Makita and Milwalkee. In fact I got the lifetime battery replacement so the last thing I’d be arguing for here would be some campaign that would jeopardize the existence of the Ridgid name, no matter who owns it.

    So, even though I’m pretty vehement on the matter of the 3/32”, it’s really more the resale value or the reputation of the saw which - if say I owned stock in the company - I’d be most interested in advancing.

    If anyone in the company is actually monitoring this site, then it seems to me they would move on these small issues and get them to market as soon as they can.

    Two things about the 3650 arbor length issue bother me. One is that it even exists. The other is that lower sales volume could equate to shakier warranties for all of us. The engineers who shaped this saw can probably all afford better saws than this.

    Sorta like the Social Security reform effort.

    I don’t trust short sighted corporate profit taking. I like longevity in a name. I want to see if the day ever comes when Home Depot itself is still using the name Home Depot, and isn’t conveniently bought up and renamed and has legal grounds for telling me my Ridgid lifetime battery warranty is worthless. Legal larceny?

    So the sooner the company responds to marketability issues, the better for it’s stockholders and generally speaking right now, all over the country these yuppie grunts in management who never had a callous in their lives, are running these offices and driving these name changes and aren’t doing the jobs they should be doing. Their careers are pretty much revolving doors. They’re faceless.

    And what do they “do” exactly, except to come over to this site as an example and sweet talk and otherwise annoint a few of you guys as being the online heart and soul of the Ridgid spirit. And you get snookered into doing even that danged part of their job. They’re shooting golf while you hang out on websites.

    It shortchanges you and me and anyone who, get this, owns stock. It’s short term greedy short-sightedness and that’s essentially the thing that I’m battling here, every bit as much as the 3/32”. Actually we’ll want the other 1/32” for good measure if anyone’s taking notes.

    I think you just have to try and imagine how you reacted the first time you saw the price tag of this saw and began to look it over more closely.

    Now. Imagine future members #10,003 thru #15,003 walk into their respective HD’s and their wives have heard TS horror stories and about how dangerous TS’s can be and lo and behold HDguy can say this saw has a 2” exposure arbor and can use the washer with a full dado set. Hell, Sears might even begin to lose sleep.

    Do you see where I’m going here? If that were the case there’s a much better chance the saw in your house right now will have a better resale value because the Ridgid name survived.

    Otherwise, what. Guys like Jake get to go to a banquet and glowingly tell the stockholders their divs will remain up by $0.04 through the last quarter because his team saved as much as they did on a 1/4” of arbor steel?

    What sense does it make to come this close, corner this price range, then ruin all the work they did to get this good a saw onto the floors of such a popular chain. And maybe you know, I don’t, but does HD have a perpetual obligation to carry only Ridgid?

    Could be. But even if they do, how often do we see these companies get around promised warranties, with the musical chairs and buyouts game. Absolving any parties from ever being accountable for promises made.

    This is why you want to see the company being more responsive to longer term selling point recommendations. What you don’t want to see is these people on here naively towing the party line, letting faceless suits get away in the night with deflating the resale value of our saws, by not caring a lick what it’s reputation is liable to be in the field 3 years from now.

  • #2
    Maineman

    While I’m not naive enough to believe the corporate suits have the shareholders best interest at heart I do not follow the logic of your passionate distrust of them relating to the resale value of our Table Saws. If you bought a new TS3650 and were fortunate enough to upgrade to a 3hp Cabinet Saw in 3 years and received 50 percent of your investment back it would translate to less than 10 cents per cut if you only averaged 20 cuts per week. Most woodworkers use their saws at a considerably higher rate than that and keep them for decades, which equates to a minimal cost over time. Most people will drive a new vehicle of a lot, and they have immediately lost 5 times the cost of a TS3650 and don’t think a thing of it. In the grand picture of our economic lives, a woodworking hobby is one of the best values out there just by virtue of the longevity we receive from our tools.

    Woodslayer

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    • #3
      Woodslayer, I don't think you said it exactly right - let me see; Mainmain, let it go. Get off your horse and get cuttin some wood. You will likely find some loosening in that knot in your stomach and your day will go better. I, too, was awake at 4:30 this morning but I was surfin the web looking for ways to improve my woodworking - doesn't that sound like more fun?

      Comment


      • #4
        maineman,
        The only question I have is, Why would Home Depot ever tell you that a warranty for Ridgid is no good. That warranty is between you (the consumer) and Ridgid. Home Depot does not own any part of Ridgid So it would never have a say in what warranty is valid or not. If you bought the tool new the the warranty is intact even if HD is no longer around.
        Jeff

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        • #5
          It should be noted to anyone looking for conclusive information on these forums that a few very talented writers are as much caught up with vying with each other for top most rankings of having posted the most posts; as they are toward enlivening any particular discussion, instead of neutralizing it.

          It could be this trend subsides as warmer weather comes along. I can’t say. I’ve not used this site in the warmer months since my TS3650 purchase. Instead I was using the saw. At night when I wasn’t using the saw, I was using the computer. Not for doing this I can assure you but for drafting upcoming projects. I also have a pretty foxy wife so I didn’t need another outlet for pure comraderie if you know what I mean. It’s one of the reasons I missed the arbor issue before purchasing a Freud Dado set which will not fit on the 3650 because of the short arbor. But I think I should be able to rely on a quality product to do what I bought it for so that I can evetually have a life other than making sawdust, or more aptly, cyberjive.

          What I do sense is that within this group of people, is a mindset if you will, where comments made by them, seem intended to advance an illusion that they are being as helpful as helpful can be. Either that or they actually do feel each issue as strongly as others among us do about any given product, but they are doing this whether or not they own that particular tool. I personlly don't get that impression but you can believe what you choose.

          If you have any doubts as to a commentor’s consistency or motives please don’t hesitate to use their member #’s in the "onsite search page" and study the patterns of their comments. It isn't hard. Just click on "search", above, and when that page loads down in the bottom box you'll see where you can just type or paste their member number. Click the search button there, and you'll get a whole list of mindnumbing threads, many of which will downright make your head spin.

          I think you will find it to be one of the more entertaining aspects of this site. It doesn’t get much solved, resolved or accomplished though, because they spread themselves too thin and only make a token effort to relate to your particular concerns.

          The sad result - particulalry with regard to customer satisfaction issues - is that you can imagine how less experienced newbies to the site, guys a little more shy about voicing their concerns, end up with the impression they are wrong or inferior to feel dissatisfied or ignorant about certain facts. A good one, an example of deflective info is stuff like which company now owns the owner of Ridgid and so on. We're not as ignorant as we are uninformed. And all we're trying to do here is to encourage the company to be more officially engaged with these issues publically. So far it's only being done through these mouthpieces so there really shouldn't be any way to feel shy about jumping in and asking questions.

          Newcomers should not in any way be psychologically squelched from making posts here, but it is happening every day. They're doing it under the radar though. Very sophistacatedly. That’s what's happening when these people enter a thread and essentially toss in a whole line of talking out both sides of their mouths, disquise it as user friendly, and essentially fracture or blur any suggestion that a dollar bill should still be worth a dollar bill after corporate lawyers and advertising and very sophisticatedly country dumb customer service centers have their way with that customer satisfaction quotient. Meanwhile the corporate profit machine rolls on unchecked, not even slowing down to notice how much they are shooting themselves in the foot. I stated as clearly as I could that my logic follows the line of thinking that oh a whim corporations are not regulated very well as to how frequently they can up and sell themselves to another company, change their name, and substantially water down your warranty.

          woodslayer - please explain how it would benefit or disadvantage you, a TS2424 owner, not a TS3650 owner, if the 3650 eventually became a blue ribbon performer? If I were you I’d be looking to picking up a used 3650 as quick as I possibly could. I doubt I’d be asking the seller if I could give him a tip after he gave me his rock bottom price.

          What's that mean. It means that some of us will care more about this arbor issue than others will. Why, because we have one already. I personally have yet another spin. We plan to leave this house and my shop to our other daughter and son-in-law when he's discharged. She prays he'll return home safely while I just knock on whatever's handy. Could be why I'm going a little nuts about the way the way some people are putting down my efforts here.

          It's a just great saw and they might have different reasons why it should stay the way it is. You can pick one up cheaper if you see one at an auction. So if I have a little table top saw right now, I'd really like to find a 3650. The 3650 was sold as having have long term value. I didn't see the planned obsolescence until I'd saved for the dado set I wanted.

          Most won't shop for a dado head for well after 90 days you will notice. Blink and the 3 years will have gone by. But you can't care the same way about those time frames or about some cute planned obsolescence or corner cutting or pencil sharpening idiocy, unless you own that particlular model. You've got nothing vested so you don't feel the deception quite as accutely.

          Like 50 years of successively improved model changes in the US automotive industry, where they essentially lost every natural market foothold they'd had, over to non-US companies who were listening more closely to what customers wanted.

          I wish I could remember which one of these guys on here actually likes stating how this or that practice is something which he alone passes off as some officially legislated "industry standard". Reportedly these are guys hang out on this website and on another ww websites, I suspect probably more than my other daughter is on the phone. But she's 18 years old for heaven's sake.

          Comment


          • #6
            maineman, isn't ridgid replacing the arbors if you request it? If so, what's the problem? Am I missing something?
            I rarely buy a new product because bugs frequently need to be worked out, the arbor is an example of that.
            www.TheWoodCellar.com

            Comment


            • #7
              Guys,

              It's a discussion about consumerism and marketing as it relates to the value of tools over time.

              The thread is not about the 3650, per se. My initial comments are not about the saw so much as they are about the longevity of tool warranties as those might have something to do with the value of a power tool. Doesn't anyone remember a store chain called Home Quarters Warehouse?

              You're only contribution to the topic there is just pure groupspeak. Cool. Fine. Frankly I'd rather be woodworking but the shop ain't heated, or skiing, but Daytona's on today so decided to hang for the party.

              How bout it Cuj0HD? What happens if HD did go out of biz. Do you think Ridgid has anywhere else they could go? Hey. K-Mart could use a good in house tool line come to think of it.

              Or what if customers had to then pay freight for large Ridgid tools - catalogue direct mailorder - don't you think the edge might not then go to Grizzly in this price range?

              These are the various corporate marketing and profit taking issues I'm hoping to examine in this thread. Just hadn't seen a thread talking about power tools from that perspective and wanted to discuss it with others so... my question is why say stuff which would squelch others from jumping in with similar observations about long term power tool value.

              Probably don't have problems with knots 'cause I've never made it a practice to sheepishly chime in only by following the easiest popular opinion. It'd actually be harder for me to believe you guys didn't have full blown ulcers.

              Comment


              • #8
                Mainemain----obviously the previous responses to your posts aren't phasing you in the least. I will try one last time:

                ---As owners of 3650s have posted, and as I've pointed out, their arbor lengths are no different than most any other saw of the same class and likely, of most saws built for home and light commercial use.

                ---Second---you constantly bring up the "safety" issue in regards to not being able to put on the washer. Again, as I reported, the previous Emerson rep. said it wasn't necessary with a dado set.

                ---And as to safety, as I've tried to point out, with more chippers and blades, you have more resistance and greater chance of kick-back.

                ---And, BTW, are you even aware that Europeon table saws have shorter arbors, in that they felt so strongly about the safety issues in using dados, that they developed the short arbor standard to keep people from using dados.

                Frankly, I don't know what your company and stock holder arguements have to do with this, and as to resale value---if you want top resale value---buy a Shopsmith or Delta tool.

                And as to making denigrating comments about people on this board just trying to get star ratings, or whatever----with your 44 posts---is this the way you go into new places or forums----if you don't like it that people don't agree with you, that's the nature of this format, but we're sure not going to loose sleep over you and your rants. If you want to discuss an issue---great---but if you're judging this board by whether you get agreement with your views----dream on!
                Dave

                Comment


                • #9
                  Rafael,

                  Besides the issue you are seeimg in most of the other threads which is the recess near the arbor shoulder issue, there is a second issue on the arbor having possibly been re-spedified from previously phased out model specs.

                  Presumably from a table top model with a motor and frame capacity which would not support heavier and wider professional dado sets.

                  But nobody at Ridgid nor any of those commenting negatively to this issue, seem to have anything specific as to explain why they did not spec a completely professional arbor length for a their top of the line saw.

                  Some think it was might have been an honest oversight others suspect it might have been an intentional plan to use up dead parts out of inventory.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Dave there is plenty of agreement on these matters and you're only validating every word I've suggested to the visitors about you're insisting on taking a dominant stance of next to everything that is said on these threads. Back off and let others chime in before you levy your final word. You have no official capacity on this site.

                    Please.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Maineman----"back off"? No----it started out with your querry and responses, and I, by no means am the only one----but obviously, you know more than the rest of us combined---obviously, you have no need for a forum like this, since you seem to know everything and have no desire to hear contrary views.
                      Dave

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        hey Dave,

                        Home depot is leading the Daytona, Check it out.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hay, guys, I think he's gone to watch the race. Whew!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Hey Ray,

                            Good one. Think all your buddies did too.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Maineman

                              Sitting here contemplating whether your posts were worthy of a second response, I decided that it would be the lesser of two evils (the other being snow-blowing the driveway again). Perhaps I misunderstood the intent of your post and assumed you were concerned about the resale value of all tools carrying the Ridgid nameplate and not just the TS3650. That would not be surprising considering the fact that even though you possess quite the extensive vocabulary your endless ramblings are mind numbingly dull. Realizing that you may be slightly out of your element here, being the Captain of the Debate Team and attempting to fit in with down to earth people on a woodworking forum, you need to quit trying so hard and just give us a chance, we enjoy gathering and sharing woodworking knowledge and making sawdust much more than finding fault with each other, you are not impressing anyone.

                              Woodslayer

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